going to a gun fight with empty gun

The Best online firearms community in Louisiana.

Member Benefits:

  • Fewer Ads!
  • Discuss all aspects of firearm ownership
  • Discuss anti-gun legislation
  • Buy, sell, and trade in the classified section
  • Chat with Local gun shops, ranges, trainers & other businesses
  • Discover free outdoor shooting areas
  • View up to date on firearm-related events
  • Share photos & video with other members
  • ...and so much more!
  • John_

    Shooter
    Rating - 100%
    21   0   0
    Nov 23, 2013
    3,451
    113
    Hammond, LA
    Literally about the same time as it would to hit the bolt release.

    one is way safer. motor51 answered your suggestion. A pothole, or simply bump the bolt release and not realize it. why do you zealots emphasize/stress cops should store their AR-15 in condition 1, or the bolt locked back?

    It takes all of a second to work the CH and chamber a round. maybe a half second for a well trained officer.
     

    Jstudz220

    Well-Known Member
    Rating - 100%
    26   0   0
    Oct 14, 2020
    1,922
    113
    Harvey Louisiana
    one is way safer. motor51 answered your suggestion. A pothole, or simply bump the bolt release and not realize it. why do you zealots emphasize/stress cops should store their AR-15 in condition 1, or the bolt locked back?

    It takes all of a second to work the CH and chamber a round. maybe a half second for a well trained officer.
    Actually motor agreed with what I originally suggested. Did you even read the thread? I was agreeing with what you said but seems like every time I post you’re just looking for something to pick. Maybe go back and read post #13.

    The common argument for guys who leave the bolt back is it’s faster to charge the gun. I was stating it’s about the same time as just using the charging handle leaving the bolt forward and leaving the bolt forward is much safer without a round chambered.
     

    John_

    Shooter
    Rating - 100%
    21   0   0
    Nov 23, 2013
    3,451
    113
    Hammond, LA
    Actually motor agreed with what I originally suggested. Did you even read the thread? I was agreeing with what you said but seems like every time I post you’re just looking for something to pick. Maybe go back and read post #13.

    The common argument for guys who leave the bolt back is it’s faster to charge the gun. I was stating it’s about the same time as just using the charging handle leaving the bolt forward and leaving the bolt forward is much safer without a round chambered.
    yeah I read #13 yesterday but got you confused with kevin. Then you seemingly agreed with him in post #21 above. Start a poll here and see how many LEOs ride around shift after shift, SOP, with the BCG locked back on their AR15 and a mag inserted.
     

    DBMJR1

    Madame Mayor's Fiefdom
    Rating - 100%
    23   0   0
    Jul 27, 2008
    2,313
    113
    New Orleans, La.
    Did you know that if you butt stroke someone in the head, hard enough, you can charge a round from the magazine of a closed bolt rifle? That'll leave a mark in your MOPP trousers.
    Just plain stupid to walk around with an open bolt on a loaded mag.
     

    Jstudz220

    Well-Known Member
    Rating - 100%
    26   0   0
    Oct 14, 2020
    1,922
    113
    Harvey Louisiana
    yeah I read #13 yesterday but got you confused with kevin. Then you seemingly agreed with him in post #21 above. Start a poll here and see how many LEOs ride around shift after shift, SOP, with the BCG locked back on their AR15 and a mag inserted.
    I was agreeing with you in post 21. Not sure where your confusion came from. Again the common argument is it’s faster to hit the bolt release. I was stating it’s about the same time.
     

    La26

    Well-Known Member
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jan 4, 2011
    222
    43
    Paulina, La.
    Being a POST Firearms Instructor with my Dept, we NEVER advise that the Deputies carry the rifle (AR Platform) with a round in the chamber. They are instructed to carry it with bolt forward on an empty chamber, and a loaded mag inserted. Properly trained Officers will charge their rifle when exiting their unit. Can't say what they actually do. When they arrive at the Range/Training Facility, I instruct them to step to the firing line, clear their rifle, and place it in the rifle rack with the bolt locked to the rear, and weapon on safe.
    I have yet to see one Deputy remove a live round from the chamber when they clear their rifle, so apparently they are following our instructions by not having a round in the chamber. And they DO NOT clear their weapons at their vehicle, they move to the firing line to do so.
    Also, we train them to retain their weapon (not ditch it). That's why we issue a sling. The POST Patrol Rifle Qualification Course includes a transition to sidearm to fire two rounds when the rifle runs dry. This is accomplished by attempting to engage the target, which the rifle "clicks" on an empty chamber, then the Deputy (Officer) slinging the rifle, drawing their sidearm and firing two shots center mass in 5 seconds from the 4 yard line.
     
    Last edited:

    La26

    Well-Known Member
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jan 4, 2011
    222
    43
    Paulina, La.
    Damn. Didn't realize asking a question would cause so much of a dispute. I'm sorry guys. Lol
    Not at all !! I think discussing the matter helps so that others that aren't sure get a better understanding of the matter. We just need to keep it civilized.
     

    Jstudz220

    Well-Known Member
    Rating - 100%
    26   0   0
    Oct 14, 2020
    1,922
    113
    Harvey Louisiana
    Damn. Didn't realize asking a question would cause so much of a dispute. I'm sorry guys. Lol
    I don’t think their was ever really a dispute but just some confusion.

    I’m just glad someone didn’t say don’t leave the bolt back because it would cause the buffer spring to loose tension lol. That would have opened up a whole different can of worms.
     

    MOTOR51

    Well-Known Member
    Rating - 100%
    72   0   0
    Dec 23, 2008
    6,342
    113
    here
    wait it doesnt? i lived my whole life on that man... if your not first your last!!!!

    giphy.gif



    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
     

    Magdump

    Don’t troll me bro!
    Rating - 100%
    163   0   0
    Dec 31, 2013
    9,396
    113
    Hammond, Louisiana
    Keep in mind long guns aren’t primary weapons for LEO’s. It’s only something they utilize in certain situations.
    I don’t keep that in mind because I’m not a LEO. After some thought, I can understand why they might have that policy though. But grabbing an empty gun with no mag…. He could have grabbed the tire iron and been just as effective, lol. On a positive note, 12ga cruisers can’t lose a magazine.
     

    Jstudz220

    Well-Known Member
    Rating - 100%
    26   0   0
    Oct 14, 2020
    1,922
    113
    Harvey Louisiana
    I don’t keep that in mind because I’m not a LEO. After some thought, I can understand why they might have that policy though. But grabbing an empty gun with no mag…. He could have grabbed the tire iron and been just as effective, lol. On a positive note, 12ga cruisers can’t lose a magazine.
    Well I’m not a LEO either but I do know when I see a police men I don’t see them walking around with AR’s slung around their shoulders lol. I can see where the thought comes from though being a civilian who carries a gun most of us would never think of carrying without one in the chamber.
     

    La26

    Well-Known Member
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jan 4, 2011
    222
    43
    Paulina, La.
    I don’t keep that in mind because I’m not a LEO. After some thought, I can understand why they might have that policy though. But grabbing an empty gun with no mag…. He could have grabbed the tire iron and been just as effective, lol. On a positive note, 12ga cruisers can’t lose a magazine.
    True, a 12 ga can be a devastating weapon, especially for CQB. But, that does bring up a question about how to carry the shotgun in the vehicle? Of course, no round in the chamber, but how many in the magazine (tubular)? There are drawbacks, especially in our climate. We found (NOPD) that after an extended time in the trunk of a Unit, where summer temps can get crispy, the plastic shells in the magazine tend to soften a bit. Compound this with extreme spring pressure pushing against them in a fully loaded tube magazine (5 rounds, or 7 in extended), the shells tended to swell to the point where they would not feed in the magazine. Being squished (technical term) end to end by the very strong spring and follower had negative effects on the unfired rounds. SO, when you exited the unit, grabbed you shotgun from the trunk and racked the slide, no shell got chambered because they were swollen and jammed in the magazine. That's when "transition to your sidearm" training comes into play again.
    Only saw it a time or two, fortunately only in training, but happening once in an "oh crap" situation could be a bad day for the good guys.
    Weapon maintenance, checking your ammo, and don't over load your mag could make the difference.
     

    Emperor

    Seriously Misunderstood!
    Rating - 100%
    11   0   0
    Mar 7, 2011
    8,376
    113
    Nether region
    Being a POST Firearms Instructor with my Dept, we NEVER advise that the Deputies carry the rifle (AR Platform) with a round in the chamber. They are instructed to carry it with bolt forward on an empty chamber, and a loaded mag inserted. Properly trained Officers will charge their rifle when exiting their unit. Can't say what they actually do. When they arrive at the Range/Training Facility, I instruct them to step to the firing line, clear their rifle, and place it in the rifle rack with the bolt locked to the rear, and weapon on safe.
    I have yet to see one Deputy remove a live round from the chamber when they clear their rifle, so apparently they are following our instructions by not having a round in the chamber. And they DO NOT clear their weapons at their vehicle, they move to the firing line to do so.
    Also, we train them to retain their weapon (not ditch it). That's why we issue a sling. The POST Patrol Rifle Qualification Course includes a transition to sidearm to fire two rounds when the rifle runs dry. This is accomplished by attempting to engage the target, which the rifle "clicks" on an empty chamber, then the Deputy (Officer) slinging the rifle, drawing their sidearm and firing two shots center mass in 5 seconds from the 4 yard line.
    1652373603502.png
     

    Jstudz220

    Well-Known Member
    Rating - 100%
    26   0   0
    Oct 14, 2020
    1,922
    113
    Harvey Louisiana
    True, a 12 ga can be a devastating weapon, especially for CQB. But, that does bring up a question about how to carry the shotgun in the vehicle? Of course, no round in the chamber, but how many in the magazine (tubular)? There are drawbacks, especially in our climate. We found (NOPD) that after an extended time in the trunk of a Unit, where summer temps can get crispy, the plastic shells in the magazine tend to soften a bit. Compound this with extreme spring pressure pushing against them in a fully loaded tube magazine (5 rounds, or 7 in extended), the shells tended to swell to the point where they would not feed in the magazine. Being squished (technical term) end to end by the very strong spring and follower had negative effects on the unfired rounds. SO, when you exited the unit, grabbed you shotgun from the trunk and racked the slide, no shell got chambered because they were swollen and jammed in the magazine. That's when "transition to your sidearm" training comes into play again.
    Only saw it a time or two, fortunately only in training, but happening once in an "oh crap" situation could be a bad day for the good guys.
    Weapon maintenance, checking your ammo, and don't over load your mag could make the difference.
    So what’s the solution to this other than swapping out the ammo more frequently. I’ve always been taught that if you’re storing a shotgun cruiser ready to keep the magazine downloaded by one round. For example if it’s a 7 round tube only load 6 rounds into it.

    Unless I’m missing something it seems like that’s the only option. Unless of course you can find duty/department approved ammo with brass shells which I don’t think exist.
     

    La26

    Well-Known Member
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jan 4, 2011
    222
    43
    Paulina, La.
    So what’s the solution to this other than swapping out the ammo more frequently. I’ve always been taught that if you’re storing a shotgun cruiser ready to keep the magazine downloaded by one round. For example if it’s a 7 round tube only load 6 rounds into it.

    Unless I’m missing something it seems like that’s the only option. Unless of course you can find duty/department approved ammo with brass shells which I don’t think exist.

    Keep it down loaded by a couple rounds. I recommend the Officers carry a side saddle, and a buttstock shell holder. When they deploy their shotgun and chamber a round, use the extra rounds in the buttstock shell holder to top it off. Keep the side saddle loaded until shots are fired, then combat load from the side saddle (on the receiver).
     

    Forum statistics

    Threads
    195,231
    Messages
    1,546,153
    Members
    29,172
    Latest member
    ksgunner82
    Top Bottom