New Law on Pistol Attachments.

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  • Xeon64

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    While I do not like this I also do not like people negatively attracking the attention of the ATF. We all know this is a stock. It was like the old brass knuckle belt buckles they use to sell. We knew it was brass knuckles and not a belt buckle. This is why I refuse to get a, "Brace", because I knew this day was coming.
     
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    AdvancedLaser

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    At least they are waiving the $200 tax stamp payment.

    BUT, as I read the updated FAQ's it says the pistol brace firearm must be registered as an individual first on a Form1 then transfered into a trust on a Form4. I am betting you will have to pay the $200 to move it into the trust.
     
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    thperez1972

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    From the justice department, link below.

    which makes clear that when manufacturers, dealers, and individuals use stabilizing braces to convert pistols into rifles with a barrel of less than 16 inches, commonly referred to as a short-barreled rifles, they must comply with the laws that regulate those rifles, including the National Firearms Act (NFA).

    The ATF has ruled the brace is not a stock. It appears they still believe that. This rule sounds like a long winded version of "you can't shoulder a brace" without them actually saying you can't shoulder a brace because they already backtracked on braces then backtracked on the backtrack and they would look silly if they backtracked on the backtrack of the backtrack on braces.

    Nothing in this rule bans stabilizing braces or the use of stabilizing braces on pistols.

    Braces are fine. Braces on pistols are still allowed.

    Other options including removing the stabilizing brace to return the firearm to a pistol

    If someone is worried, the fix is to take the brace off and put it in the safe next to the pistol. Tis rule skips anything about how to tell when a brace goes from stabilizing a pistol to a brace converting a pistol into a rifle.

     

    thperez1972

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    In looking further, it seems like they view any ar or ak style weapon with a brace to be an sbr. But they have an faq with some interesting answers.

    2. WHAT HAPPENS IF I HAVE A FIREARM WITH A STABILIZING BRACE THAT IS AN SBR?
    • The options available to you to are further outlined in the question and answers below. One option is to register the SBR per the requirements of the NFA.
    3. IF I CHOSE TO REGISTER A STABILIZING-BRACE EQUIPPED SBR, DO I HAVE TO PAY THE NFA REGISTRATION TAX?
    • No, provided you submit your NFA registration application to ATF within 120 days of the publication of the final rule. See questions 13 and 14 below for additional information on the provisions in the final rule providing for tax forbearance on NFA registration applications.
    10. ONCE THE FIREARM IS REGISTERED AS A SHORT-BARRELED RIFLE (SBR) CAN I REMOVE/CHANGE THE “STABILIZING BRACE” OR ATTACH AN ITEM MARKETED AS A STOCK? IF SO, AM I REQUIRED TO NOTIFY ATF IN ADVANCE?
    • Yes, the firearm is registered as an SBR, and you can change out the “brace” device or stock for a different brace or stock. You do not need to contact ATF/NFA because changing the brace/stock does not change the configuration of the SBR. However, if the length of the firearm has changed you will need to notify the NFA Division
    13. IS THERE A LIMIT OF HOW MANY FIREARMS WITH A “STABILIZING BRACE” THAT I CAN REGISTER AS SBRS FOR FREE DURING THE TAX FORBEARANCE PERIOD?
    • The tax forbearance only pertains to the firearms with an attached “stabilizing brace” in your possession at the time the final rule is published. There is no limit on how many you may register, but owners in possession of these types of SBRs must register within 120-days from the date of publication in the Federal Register.
    19. IF I HAVE A DISABILITY AND NEED A “STABILIZING BRACE” TO OPERATE THE FIREARM (AS IT WAS ORIGINALLY DESIGNED AND INTENDED), DO I NEED TO REGISTER IT?
    • Yes, but only if the firearm with the “stabilizing brace” is an SBR. If the firearm with the “stabilizing brace” is not an SBR, it need not be registered and, consistent with the federal firearm laws, may continue to be possessed and used by persons with or without a disability. See Questions 4 and 5 above for more information on how to determine if the “stabilizing brace” equipped firearm you possess is an SBR. If the firearm is an SBR, it needs to be registered within 120-days from the date of publication in the Federal Register

    I've been thinking about registering a couple of sbr's anyway. I can save myself some money.



     

    John_

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    from the article: "The new rule gives owners, manufacturers and distributors 120 days to report their stabilizing braces to the ATF tax-free."

    So while its sounds like a good deal (waiving the $200 SBR registration fee), they know you now own a braced pistol and have now registered it with the ATF in compliance with their new BS rule interpretation. In earlier information releases the ATF stated they also want a picture of the weapon with your free F1 "braced pistol" stamp application, to make sure people are not getting a free tax stamp for a short barreled rifle config, and it indeed is a qualified braced pistol configuration. After you register it, you will only be able to sell on a F4 (along with the 6+ month wait for ATF approval for the purchaser) going forward and to a qualified individual. Selling used silencers and SBRs can be executed, but it's a real challenge. And the ATF now has a picture of your weapon to boot. Think of it this way, once you apply for the free braced pistol stamp, you will now own it for life. And you just cannot take off the brace and sell it as a AR15 pistol after registering it. I mean you can but you will be in violation of the NFA/ATF rules. You registered by its SN, and your supplied pic.

    Better strategy imo is NOT to apply for the free stamp and wait for this to be decided in the federal courts. Might take 2 or 3 years to reach an outcome but you are not backed into the ATF "new box" as I outlined above. Or take off the brace (and destroy it, or simply throw it away, or give it to a family member to store until this is decided in the courts, but do not have it in your residence) and install a pistol buffer tube. No longer a braced pistol config and 100% legal.

    This was all precipitated by Joe Biden in the last 23 months. An active shooter used a braced pistol in Boulder CO March 2021 so Biden says "we have to ban that, way too easy to conceal". The ATF had previously ruled the braced AR-15 pistol config was legal years ago (2017).
     

    John_

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    This was supposed to be finalized in Dec 2022 but the ATF delayed no doubt to complete the new "braced pistol" forms or the on line E file software I'm guessing. And a mechanism to submit a photo or photos with the application. ATF had a planned outage last weekend for 4 hours late Saturday/early Sunday morning, I got the ATF email notice. I bet they are updating the F1 electronic submission software for "braced pistol apps". You can thank Joe Biden and the Dums directly for this one.
     

    AdvancedLaser

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    After you register it, you will only be able to sell on a F4 (along with the 6+ month wait for ATF approval for the purchaser) going forward and to a qualified individual. Selling used silencers and SBRs can be executed, but it's a real challenge. And the ATF now has a picture of your weapon to boot. Think of it this way, once you apply for the free braced pistol stamp, you will now own it for life. And you just cannot take off the brace and sell it as a AR15 pistol after registering it. I mean you can but you will be in violation of the NFA/ATF rules. You registered by its SN, and your supplied pic.
    You dont have to transfer it. You can email the ATF a letter requesting to void the stamp. There are two ways to remove an item from the NFA or pending NFA. Withdraw and Void. Withdraw is when the registration or transfer is pending, and void is when you want it removed from the registry. After its removed (90 days) you can sell it as a regular Title One firearm.

    (Obviously I am implying returning it to 16"Bbl 26" overall prior to)
     
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    AdvancedLaser

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    This was supposed to be finalized in Dec 2022 but the ATF delayed no doubt to complete the new "braced pistol" forms or the on line E file software I'm guessing. And a mechanism to submit a photo or photos with the application. ATF had a planned outage last weekend for 4 hours late Saturday/early Sunday morning, I got the ATF email notice. I bet they are updating the F1 electronic submission software for "braced pistol apps". You can thank Joe Biden and the Dums directly for this one.
    John_ are you an FFL ?
     

    John_

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    You dont have to transfer it. You can email the ATF a letter requesting to void the stamp. There are two ways to remove an item from the NFA or pending NFA. Withdraw and Void. Withdraw is when the registration or transfer is pending, and void is when you want it removed from the registry. After its removed (90 days) you can sell it as a regular Title One firearm.

    (Obviously I am implying returning it to 16"Bbl 26" overall prior to)
    Ok. What about the NFA engraving (maker's name)? It simply remains there, or is obliterated in some fashion?

    John_ are you an FFL ?
    No, I am not.
     

    AdvancedLaser

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    Ok. What about the NFA engraving (maker's name)? It simply remains there, or is obliterated in some fashion?
    On the 120 day guns there is no requirement to engrave.
    No, I am not.
    Oh, you said you "got the ATF email notice".....Just your work email ? You one of our ATF or Feds we have on the board ?
     

    John_

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    On the 120 day guns there is no requirement to engrave.

    Oh, you said you "got the ATF email notice".....Just your work email ? You one of our ATF or Feds we have on the board ?
    Anyone registered on the ATF E-file website to create an F1 (silencer or SBR) receives notices of planned ATF website outages.
    Still "cutting metal" with your laser? LMAO
     

    AdvancedLaser

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    Anyone registered on the ATF E-file website to create an F1 (silencer or SBR) receives notices of planned ATF website outages.
    Still "cutting metal" with your laser? LMAO
    Just remember, later on when you get your feelings hurt, as usual you started being a jerk to others first.

    Mine were legitimate questions.
     

    cajun 22

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    It seems that they contradict themselves. All braces are designed to be attached to the arm and used as a brace. That is ok with them. What they don't like is that you can shoulder it.
     

    WhereIsIt?

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    More reason to not even own an AR.. I've owned my 30/30 for 20yrs and never had worry about what's legal or not.

    Tactitools and blanket statements... Welcome to Bayoushooter.
     

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