Should torturing be legal?

[CajunTim]

Is there any case where you feel torturing should be allowed to be used?

I do.

 

[Manimal]

I don't out of principle.

I don't trust my government to not torture American Citizens, especially with the Patriot Act & other constitution butchering acts in play.

And...if we don't torture, but our enemy does...when we have more of an ethical/moral right to obliterate them...in my opinion.

 

[JadeRaven]

If one is not an US citizen he has no rights under the US constitution.

As far as citizens go, though, there should be no legal torture. That is the purpose of our justice system.

 

[alex]

legal? no.

 

[lilmoose0]

Really doesn't matter what we think. The people in position to do such a thing will do so without John Q. Public's opinion.
Sorry but true.

 

[Slow]

can someone please define torture so that we have something to go on? torture can mean many different things, are we talking about water boarding or cliping off fingers with garden shears and stopping the bleeding with a cigarette lighter

 

[LouisianaCarry]

If one is not an US citizen he has no rights under the US constitution.

As far as citizens go, though, there should be no legal torture. That is the purpose of our justice system.

As we all know, the USC only enumerates certain inaleniable rights. Political boundaries cannot negate inherent rights.

This country was founded on this ideal:

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just Powers from the consent of the governed..."

 

[CajunTim]

As we all know, the USC only enumerates certain inaleniable rights. Political boundaries cannot negate inherent rights.

This country was founded on this ideal:

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just Powers from the consent of the governed..."

What is meant by created equal?

 

[JadeRaven]

The USSR was created on an ideal. Rome was founded on an ideal. Hitler had many ideals when he took over Europe. And so on.

Why should we seek to protect the "inherent rights" of a non-citizen looking to take away our inherent rights? If the CIA can torture some terrorist to save the lives of thousands of Americans, more power to them.

 

[JadeRaven]

What is meant by created equal?

Exactly. These terrorists were born of flesh and blood just like you and me. They started off as good, innocent people, just like you and me.

What are they now? Not equal to you and me, that's for sure.

 

[LouisianaCarry]

How detailed an answer do you want?

(Sorry. I think you asked this before, and I forgot to answer. I just remembered that when you posted this.)

In as few a words as possible, it means that you are not born with more or less rights than me.

All people are born with rights. No class or color or kind of person is inherently better than any other. For example, no one has a right to you or the fruits of your labor. We operate as if they do, because we have become accustomed to a form of serfdom for some time now.

Before I start to rant, have you seen this?

The Philosophy of Liberty

 

[CajunTim]

How detailed an answer do you want?

(Sorry. I think you asked this before, and I forgot to answer. I just remembered that when you posted this.)

In as few a words as possible, it means that you are not born with more or less rights than me.

All people are born with rights. No class or color or kind of person is inherently better than any other. For example, no one has a right to you or the fruits of your labor. We operate as if they do, because we have become accustomed to a form of serfdom for some time now.

Before I start to rant, have you seen this?

The Philosophy of Liberty

That is pretty much the book answer.

 

[LouisianaCarry]

Exactly. These terrorists were born of flesh and blood just like you and me. They started off as good, innocent people, just like you and me.

What are they now? Not equal to you and me, that's for sure.

Not that the absolute truth is very popular, but here it is:

Galatians 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

We are all going to the same place, and we all have the same option to get out of that.

 

[LouisianaCarry]

That is pretty much the book answer.

Again, how much of an answer do you want?

Ask a more specific question to get a more specific answer.

 

[CajunTim]

Again, how much of an answer do you want?

Ask a more specific question to get a more specific answer.

That was a great answer I just wanted it out there for others who might not have known.

 

[Manimal]

Torture is done before conviction of crimes, not after, typically.

Innocent until proven Guilty? Torture assumes Guilt before Innocence and seeks to find admissions of personal guilt, or that of others, through persistent harm. A person will admit guilt, or blame others, regardless of it being true in order to stop the harm being done to them.

 

[LACamper]

Rights? That applies to US citizens. Not foreigners. Foreigners here illegally have no rights. Not combatants. Combatants would be covered by the Geneva Convention, had we actually signed it. The US didn't participate in the Geneva Convention but we have generally abided by it. That would apply to combatants in a declared war.
But, we don't have a declared war with another country's government. We have a police action against criminals. They blew up US citizens inside our borders. They used biological weapons, a weapon of mass destruction, against our citizens inside our border. The US has always had a policy of equating biological as chemical as nuclear. Every member of the Taliban should already be fallout. They have no rights. We can torture them all the military wants.
While I'm ranting... we should have used a small nuke in Afghanistan against a Taliban outpost. That would have gained respect for the US. I know certain factions would have been horrified, but not had we done that on 9/15/01. We should have taken down every terrorist cell we knew of. That would have, in the long run, saved American lives. We will soon be back to facing terrorist on US soil. Obama will probably win the next election. He will withdraw our troops. Iraq will fall back into Islamic Fundamentalist hands, or worse, be taken over by Iran. Terrorist will be blowing up, or shooting up, our grammar schools, malls, and God knows what else. And we won't torture the prisoners to find out what the next target will be because that would be cruel and would look bad in the news...

 

[LouisianaCarry]

With all due respect, it seems you do not understand what true rights are, LACamper.

 

[LACamper]

Sure I do. I have the right to expect the US military to protect us. Period. Whatever it takes. The Taliban is fighting this war 'no holds barred', we need to also.

 

[LouisianaCarry]