Should torturing be legal?

[Manimal]

It is every bit as much a religious war by Christians against Muslims as it is Muslims against Christians.

Let's not be fooled...reality isn't always something we want to admit.

Personally I think foreign policy is truly to blame...a globalist idea being pushed throughout the world. We're about to face a lot more of this in the next 4 years. Clinton & Obama are clearly globalists, and if you heard McCains victory speech yesterday, when he won Wash & Wis, he made it blatantly clear that he had a global agenda.

Be careful what you wish for and say is OK...remember, if torture is legal YOU can be tortured. Our Constitution does not fit in a globalist agenda, and it has essentially been done away with and will continue to be done away with.

You will not be protected.

Let me ask you...how much do you trust this established government?

 

[LouisianaCarry]

In fewer words:

The more power you give the government to do things for you is the more power you give government to do things to you.

 

[ta2d_cop]

If torturing some illegal Muslim immigrant or a legal christian citizen that probable cause showed had information that was being withheld that could have prevented the Sept 11 terrorist attack, I'm sorry, the lives of thousands of people far out way the pain suffered by one.

Why not cooperate?

Call me a tyrant or what ever you want, but you paranoid government fearing folks out there have a warped perspective.

The government has better things to do than go door to door torturing every man, woman, and child.

Thinking the average law abiding citizen has to worry about being tortured is ridiculous.

Extreme circumstances call for extreme measures.

I wouldn't torture someone to solve a burglary or even a homicide, but to get information from a criminal associate to locate a kidnapped child being held by a child molester? What if it was your child?

It is easy to give the PC party line answer of "Torture is bad" but there should be some exception.

Ever heard of justifiable homicide?

 

[LACamper]

We agree on that at least. I'm talking about torture in our fight against the Taliban. Our constitution applies to US citizens here, not to terrorist in Iraq or Cuba. I don't feel it should apply to non-us citizens. There need to be guidelines and controls. I'm not suggesting backing illegals up to the nearest wall. But I also don't think we should let the terrorist kill American citizens because we don't want to upset the terrorists or because we don't want to look bad in the news to the rest of the UN members. They started this war. They blew up the twin towers, remember. One of my friends works across the street from the pentagon. He had patriot missile batteries outside his office. Our lives changed that day. I watched F18's intercept a seaplane and 'escort' it into the lakefront airport during the no fly weekend. I thought for sure I was going to watch a seaplane get shot down. I watched on TV as American's jumped to their death to avoid burning. Remember? I won't forget that. I have a friend getting ready to go back to Iraq next month to spend 18 months leaning out a Blackhawk on a door gun. He might not come back. Remember the fear of opening an envelope after 9/11? Will it have white powder? Is it anthrax? Remember watching an American have his head cut off on TV?
I remember the first Gulf War. I remember the scud attacks. I remember Wolf Blitzer hiding under a desk and stabbing himself with an atropene injector. I know one of my friends came back suffering with 'gulf war syndrome'. He was a Navy corpsman imbedded with a marine unit. A scud hit nearby, they hopped in an APC, drove over to test for chemical weapons. It was positive, but a colonel told him he did it wrong, there were no chems. It would have been a bad move politically, we had threatened to nuke iraq if they used chemical weapons. We caved. He has stomach problems and nose bleeds that he didn't have before. Now he suffers, quietly. One of his kids is autistic. Is that why? he wonders...

Now tell me how much you're worried about the terrorist rights. Instead of torturing them, they sit in a jail cell waching cable TV and eating 3 meals a day at our expense, laughing at us and how weak we are. With our borders wide open they can come in anytime through mexico. What's next?

 

[JadeRaven]

Not that the absolute truth is very popular, but here it is:

Galatians 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

We are all going to the same place, and we all have the same option to get out of that.

I have a feeling these guys shouting allah ackbar looking for their seventy virgins after suicide bombing themselves are not going to proclaim their faith in Jesus Christ, given the option to.

 

[JadeRaven]

Sure I do. I have the right to expect the US military to protect us. Period. Whatever it takes. The Taliban is fighting this war 'no holds barred', we need to also.

Damn right

 

[ta2d_cop]

I didn't get to watch any of it on TV after the second plane hit. I was too busy getting ready to go. I packed my **** that day and got back several months later.

I remember picking up body parts at the embassy in Kenya. I remember the USS Cole. I remember the citizens of the US as a whole cheering for victory when we bombed an empty ******* warehouse in the middle of a camel farm because Clinton called it a terrorist training camp.

I remember well and that is why I voted HELL YEAH!

America needs to get over this PC kind and gentle ****. It is going to be our downfall. It does make us weak. I think it is called THE PUSSIFICATION OF AMERICA.

 

[LouisianaCarry]

FYI, I did not vote in the poll.

The question is not specific enough for me.

Yes, if there is bona fide PROOF that, to use the earlier example, a person is indeed the kidnapper of someone's child, and will not give up that location, then, by all means- yes.

My stipulations are that:

a) there should be bona fide proof(s)
b) aggression (in this case torture) is only justified in defense of self or others
c) the response should not be disproportionate to the offense (ie. no torture in response to cheating on a high school exam)

I am no pacifist, but neither am I an aggressor.

I wish my country could say the same, whole-heartedly.

 

[Manimal]

Information gathered by torture has been proven time & time again to be unreliable. Sometimes it's good info, sometimes it's not. Let me ask this...if someone is drowning you and says they'll stop if you tell them something, and they have no way to know if it's true, are you going to just blab something so they'll quit drowning you, at least for a few minutes?

I think you would, and I would, and most people would...regardless of it being true or not.

We don't know how some of these tortures are applied, but I am pretty certain that it is not 20 minutes of discomfort like pro-torture politicians try to make it seem.

Lets see...my warped perspective...Posse Camitatis and Habeus Corpus are gone, that serves no purpose in fighting terrorism at all and only applied to US Citizens, there is Warantless Wiretapping, the Patriot Act allows government to imprison US citizens for up to life with no trial, legal representation, and has no obligation to family to tell where an imprisoned citizen is located, FEMA has set up Prison camps at over 800 locations in the nation, there is -no such thing as every day average Americans...if there is WE are certainly NOT them-, and all of our Presidential Candidates, Senate, and Congress are Globalists who are trying to give control of the US, and US law, to the United Nations...

Yet, I have no reason to be concerned for myself or my family when it comes to the government?

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I think people's ignorance of various religions and sheepish attention to television warps their perspectives.

Allah took Jesus to heaven where he awaits until the day of judgment when he will return to earth (3: 55). Muslim traditions teach that Muhammad died not knowing if he would be judged worthy to enter Paradise - where God has already placed Jesus. Muhammad is Dead and buried in Saudi Arabia. Jesus is alive both with God in heaven (paradise) and in Spirit with his followers on Earth. (Koran 3:55; 4:158,159)

We all worship the same God. I do not feel that true people of God fear death enough to give up their rights, given to them by God the Creator, for any reason.

I am not a Christian, or a Muslim, but I am a man of a nameless and eternal God...the same God worshiped by everyone who believes.

I have a problem with anyone and anything who tries to rule by promoting cowardice, destroying individuality through global ideas, and 'protection' through control.

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You can call me PC for my beliefs but it only shows how little you know me personally, which is fine.

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The question was, should it be Legal...I say no. Does that mean that it should never be done...I haven't really said that. But making it Legal is -not- something that should be done as a policy supported by a Government which is for and by the People.

 

[LACamper]

Islamic Fundamentalist only use religion as an excuse to kill the infidels and take over the world. Peaceful islamics that stay in their country are not the problem. This war is not about religion. Its about oil and money and influence. Lets be honest. Its also about revenge and retaliation.
It should be about the US standing up for itself and not accepting the loss of American lives. If this war ends before Obama is swinging from the end of a rope we'll have more attacks here.

 

[Manimal]

So the United States should be able to run the matters of the entire world?

We should be able to create nations where we want when we want? Should be able to fund Dictators and 'Democracies' who torture, kill, and imprison the people of nations so they can gain control of those nations?(We created Saddam's power, Bin Laden's power, Musharafs power, and WE caused the overthrow of Iran's Democracy.)

We should be able to fund, train, and create terrorist groups that destroy nations?

We should able able to steal the fuel and ability for nations to feed their people?

We should be able to do this and expect no people to hate us, retaliate against us, or try to kill us?

An eye for an eye for an eye for an eye...people are going to run out of eyes.

We weren't attacked for no reason...

It's got to stop somewhere, or it's going to keep going.

If we secure our nation and give people freedom we'll be fine, but our Government -refuses- to secure our nation.

Yet we want that same Government to make -Torture-, legal to use...meaning legal to use on US citizens as well?

We're ****** up if that's the case.

 

[LouisianaCarry]

We weren't attacked for no reason...

 

[Manimal]

That is a beautiful picture!!!

 

[CavalryJim]

Should torture be legal? Absolutely not!

To those that answered yes: Would you kill a child if you thought those actions would save 10,000 other lives?

 

[Manimal]

To those that answered yes: Would you kill your own child if you thought, but were not certain, that those actions would save 10,000 other lives?

Forgive my edit, I think this questions is more applicable to making it legal.

 

[CEHollier]

I have no problem with sleep deprivation, sodium pentathol, bright lights, loud music , etc. But when you drill into a kneecap, break fingers, shove a rod up a persons rectum, etc. I'm against that. One day gun owning constitutuinalists may be considered subversive terrorists. We could be targets for torture should someone deem us a threat. Just look at how the federal government handled Waco.

 

[CajunTim]

Should torture be legal? Absolutely not!

To those that answered yes: Would you kill a child if you thought those actions would save 10,000 other lives?

I would need a little more info than a thought. If I could get in a time machine and go back and kill an infant Osama would I hell Yeah. Would you?

Did Abraham almost sacrifice his own son Issac because it was all part of a greater plan that he did not question?

Does the end justify the means?

 

[ta2d_cop]

So the United States should be able to run the matters of the entire world?

We should be able to create nations where we want when we want? Should be able to fund Dictators and 'Democracies' who torture, kill, and imprison the people of nations so they can gain control of those nations?(We created Saddam's power, Bin Laden's power, Musharafs power, and WE caused the overthrow of Iran's Democracy.)

We should be able to fund, train, and create terrorist groups that destroy nations?

We should able able to steal the fuel and ability for nations to feed their people?

We should be able to do this and expect no people to hate us, retaliate against us, or try to kill us?

An eye for an eye for an eye for an eye...people are going to run out of eyes.

We weren't attacked for no reason...

It's got to stop somewhere, or it's going to keep going.

If we secure our nation and give people freedom we'll be fine, but our Government -refuses- to secure our nation.

Yet we want that same Government to make -Torture-, legal to use...meaning legal to use on US citizens as well?

We're ****** up if that's the case.

So it is the fault of the thousands of American people who have died in terrorist attacks that our government is ****** up? Osama took a ******* poll or survey to see make sure everyone killed on 9-11 wanted the US involved in Arab interests or a US Military presence in the mid east?

GIVE ME A BREAK!

I agree that the US needs to focus more the homeland and leave the rest of the world to it's own devices, but you are starting to sound like a crazy, anti-government, US hating revolutionary more than a "constitutionlover".

It may be your passion, and if so, good.

But if you really feel that the US people deserve to suffer terrorist attacks because of 30+ years of ****** up politics you need to pack your ****, sell your guns, and get out.

The US is where it is because of the policies enacted by the people our parents and grandparents (I'm 30) elected. We went to war in Korea to fight the commies. They did not attack us, we were getting involved in the politics of the world. Policing the world has become American policy over the years.

Do we really have to give 100 million dollars in aid to African nations every year so war lords can steal it? Hell no. We need that money here for our own citizens, but we need to save the world. That's ********, but I don't think American citizens have to die because of it.

As far as the rest of the world hating us, they can kiss out fat American asses for all I care.

 

[LouisianaCarry]

I don't think he was saying any bona fide terroristic acts are defensible, only that they should not have been a surprise to anyone paying attention.

 

[Vermiform]

If they aren't US citizens and it will help save alot of US citizens' lives, I say go ahead and hook em up to a car battery.

If it helps find a cure for cancer or alzheimers , I say hook the bunnies, monkies and even a few baby harp seals up to one too.