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BRCC 
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Cancelled my USCCA membership today…
- Thread starter Magdump
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The way I remember it, they tried to not be involved at all, which sort of showed that they care more about public left wing opinion and cancel culture than standing for individual rights etc. they actually missed their golden opportunity to shine because they were worried about what all their non-customers would say. Hafer admitted he forked it up. I think maybe he did show his true colors the way it was handled, even after the fact. But, I think it was simply a “leave me out of it” puss move on their part. They didn’t drag Kyle through the mud as much as they publicly announced they were turning their back on him. They didn’t even wish him well that I know of. They just refused to stand up for the guy and said it was because “we don’t want to make money off of this tragedy”. Weak as dollar store duct tape.
That’s the way it went down. Hafer pissed off the people who supported his brand for the sake of saving face with potential future customers. As for me, man I don’t even drink coffee, but I might have worn one of them shirts until BRCC made that statement…
That’s the way it went down. Hafer pissed off the people who supported his brand for the sake of saving face with potential future customers. As for me, man I don’t even drink coffee, but I might have worn one of them shirts until BRCC made that statement…
I remember someone not directly affiliated with the company gave Kyle a BRCC shirt, took a picture of him, and posted it to social media. BRCC came out and said they have no relationship to Kyle he is not connected to BRCC in any way. This was before his trial and acquittal.
I do believe they were fearful of public opinion and backlash. It's also understandable that you can't control everyone who buys your merchandise, so addressing it did more than just not commenting at all.
Another thing to remember is that BRCC is Veteran/Pro-Veteran company. They are not a Pro 2A company. They are not Midwayusa, Brownells, etc.
I do believe they were fearful of public opinion and backlash. It's also understandable that you can't control everyone who buys your merchandise, so addressing it did more than just not commenting at all.
Another thing to remember is that BRCC is Veteran/Pro-Veteran company. They are not a Pro 2A company. They are not Midwayusa, Brownells, etc.
I agree, they were fearful of public opinion and backlash, from people who likely didn’t know their coffee existed and likely would never have been customers. For all the good it did them. They passed on a great opportunity to solidify their already existing following and failed miserably, as evidenced by this still being a thing.
davidd
Expert in the field of wife avoidance
I know we have attorneys and insurance agents on this forum. They have been vocal in the past on issues relevant to their industries. I would love to hear some of them chime in on this.
You can start with the standard I AM NOT ACTING AS YOUR ATTORNEY or I AM NOT ACTING AS YOUR INSURANCE AGENT verbiage. I'm good with that.
If you get a judgement against you for future income, does that apply to income from IRA/401K distributions after you retire? An answer of "it depends" is ok. That pretty much answers the question.
If you have a State Farm, Allstate, Farmers, SafeCo, etc. liability policy, and you act in self defense outside of your property, what is your experience in how your clients claims worked out? Did the carrier help or hang them out to dry? You do not have to specify the carrier, as I would assume they all will act in a similar fashion.
Inquiring minds want to know.
ETA: Bonus points if you can tell us what might happen to Roth IRA / Roth 401(k) non taxable distributions if you have a judgement against your income.
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Why would they want to be involved in it? While what Rittenhouse did was not illegal, what he did was a bad look for gun owners. He absolutely grabbed an AR and went looking for trouble. He found trouble. And then he (legally) defended himself from said trouble.
I would not want my company to be involved in that mess. It's not caring about "left wing opinion," but rather is choosing to stay out of a messy situation.
They didn't "turn their back on him."
They just didn't get involved in his situation. They chose to stay out of it. Standing up for him and supporting him would have been a poor corporate move, especially had he been convicted of crimes.
Why is this wrong? Trying to make money off of people dying is bad juju. And Rittenhouse was by no means a saint or savior. He was a dumb teenager who made poor decisions.
Maybe they pissed off some people, but I just don't see that it's that many. I didn't drink their coffee before and I still don't, but I don't have any hard feelings against Hafer or BRCC for their logical stance on the matter.
2tix2gunshow
Active Member
I am not a lawyer and the following is not legal advice.
Regarding liability coverage: Look for an exclusion called intentional acts. Regardless of whether the act was prudent self defense most policies exclude any intentional act that results in harm. Most people have a homeowners policy and an umbrella; homeowners is primary and will almost certainly have this exclusion.
Also, in Louisiana your homeowners needs to have a personal injury rider/endorsement to cover even unintentional acts. Many policy holders miss this.
Sorry if my opinion inflames you. The second sentence in your statement says exactly why though. You’ve passed judgment on Kyle just as so many BRCC customers did on Hafer. And you’re gonna ask me why? I could hardly hold my laughter dude.
Back to why this and that then. That’s the way I saw it. It’s also the way it was seen by a lot of the gun community. Hafer even eluded to his lack of better judgement during a podcast saying he F’d that up.
So, looks like they made a poor corporate move anyway…
Decide for yourself all the why’s, but I can tell you that a simple “no, we haven’t contributed to Kyle’s defense in any way, but we wish him well” or “were glad he’s a fan, but we’re not involved in his defense” might have gone so much further for BRCC than the repeated cries of “not making money off a tragedy” statements. Sometimes the way you say something and also what you won’t say can make all the difference. It apparently made the difference among those who recognize BRCC and people apparently decided that he turned his back on Kyle. You can argue that point if you want, but here we are still discussing it, just like people were discussing it then.
Like I already said, his primary customer was and is gun toting freedom loving America. Others in that niche were supporting Kyle before and during the trial. He stood to loose more by not supporting Kyle and he did. He admitted as much. Kinda like Budweiser catering to the 1% when they weren’t even much of the customer base and blatantly ignoring how it would affect their solid customer base, for the sake of what?Increasing sales to make more money? Hmmmm…………
Lastly, if it’s not a thing and there weren’t very many folks that felt at odds over it, why are there so many articles and videos about it?
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I kinda see the rationale, but I’m pretty sure they’re nothing alike. I absolutely think Zimmerman was head hunting and simply tried to justify his actions.
I think people forgot what Kyle said about the reasons he was involved. He simply decided that he wasn’t going to watch BLM burn a neighboring city where he had roots. He literally posted there at the dealership to do what the authorities would not, protect the property. He knew the owner IIRC. He was also not the only person standing guard. Anybody remember the LA riots and all those beloved rooftop Koreans?
It could have gone another way. It could have been a group of unarmed people standing guard and being killed or badly beaten like some of the other riots. I encourage folks to revisit the video of Kyle putting out a fire and being run down for it until he had nowhere else to retreat. Then repeating the process while trying to get to police.
Every one of those “protestors” got involved in something too.
I’ve heard several local folks, friends and family openly say at one time that if ANTIFA or BLM tried to pull that ish in their area, they would be on the street to greet them. This old bastard right here would be out there too.
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davidd
Expert in the field of wife avoidance
For me, this is the best information someone has posted on this site in a really long time. Probably ever. Thank you.
I’m no attorney but there are two questions you have that I feel like I know the answer to. Homeowners’ covers all sorts of things, depending on the policy, but I’m pretty sure you’re not covered if it doesn’t happen on the property.
If you have a monetary judgment against you, whether it be a wrongful death or injury suit or child support etc.,, any source of income or asset (or portion thereof) that is yours free and clear (not tied up in a trust, LLC, corporation, etc) is fair game. That would include salary, IRA, pension, 401k, your belongings, your piggy bank…
Sure, there are exceptions, but mostly surrounding other potential part owners of said income/property.
davidd
Expert in the field of wife avoidance
Thank you as well for the response.
It's been a while, prob more than 15 years, since I read up on this. My recollection (and I use that word intentionally) is that a 401(k) was an asset that would be protected from a liability judgment against you via federal ERISA regulations. I think your house equity was as well. And I think that at that time, the IRA that came from a 401(k) rollover was thought to be safe based on the written law, but that the situation had not been tested in court yet, so no historical case law was available. The advice at that time was to roll your 401(k) to another 401(k) to ensure continued protection. This was info not specific to self defense lawsuits, just judgments in general.
I honestly never even thought about a judgment against income affecting taxable distributions (by definition, income, at least from non-Roth accounts) from a retirement plan until this thread. Thus my questions. I really have no idea how this would work.
I'm typing in detail in hopes someone who really does know has seen something in the real world that addresses this. It's probably too detailed to address on a forum, or it's just not safe for a professional to talk about it, so I understand if this dies here.
What Magdump says may be correct, but it is not exactly what I remember reading in the past. I do not remember the source, but it may have been Kiplingers or MarketWatch (back when they actually put out good info).
The response above regarding homeowners and umbrella policies makes perfect sense on how a carrier would handle a situation. I'm calling mine soon to discuss my policy's exact wording.
Thanks for the feedback. Neither of us may be completely right or wrong about the subject. I’m going strictly on what I’ve seen happen or what I’ve been faced with over the years. Saw a doc get sued into the ground and it wasn’t his first rodeo, he was actually without malpractice insurance at the time due to previous litigation and the judgement against him dug deep. I don’t know the specifics but he was forced to liquidate to pay the patient. I don’t know all the specifics, but I know he had to sell the house he’d inherited and the big deal surrounding that was his insistence on buying out his siblings and not putting the house in a trust as his attorney had supposedly recommended. He admitted that he cashed out some retirement savings to save other assets. So, if you think about it, a lawsuit can potentially take whatever you own, one way or another.
During my divorce, all sorts of possible outcomes were explained to me. Things I had no idea could be possible. Even the potential to tap into my ex’s retirement because I had supported her through college and paid for her education outright. That blew my mind and was a huge bargaining chip when it came down to settling property. Attorneys can pull off some amazing atrocities….
That being said…..I think Shakespeare was onto something. Or Dick the Butcher, if you prefer.
Did anyone support Kyle for money? That’s a new one on me. Hadn’t heard that one. Personally, I thought a certain musician shooting up a case of bud light was pretty cheesy, but I don’t think that Kid Rock did that for money. I think he did it to openly show what side of the fence he was on.
Unless I completely missed something, it appears that BRCC did indeed involve themselves. Hafer voluntarily made a public statement to openly say he refused to make money from a tragedy. He said it over and over. Nobody put him on the spot to give any statement. Saying nothing would have been better for him if he truly did not want to be involved, no? I believe that the backlash would have been nonexistent if he’d ignored “talk” surrounding the pic. He made sure he voiced his opinion before the talk had a chance to cool off too. Apparently a certain part of the public most likely to buy his coffee prior to the debacle took offense to his statement. Hafer being interviewed after time passed was a revelation into his thoughts on the matter. As far as your theory about the people praising Kyle secretly thinking Kyle’s actions were “douchey”, I have yet to hear of any one of them changing their opinion.
I personally think that Kyle is an example of what an average American should be like. Involved, confrontational and kind, and brave enough to engage in terrifying situations, because that was domestic terrorism by BLM & those Molester/Sex Offender bros that attacked Kyle, and if Kyle was Average the people of this Nation would be much safer, much more peaceful, much more intelligent and thoughtful, and a lot more compassionate than we are now.
Right now we, most of The People, have our hedonist hats on and we're emotionally/spiritually fat and sedentary, lazy as F***, and are too cowardly to go clean up the streets when people are openly trashing them. We wait for them to leave because they might yell at us and get other people to call us names that hurt our feels or might get us fired from the Oligarchical tyrants that we work for.
And still most of The People have more class than BRCC/USCCA stooges who are simply running for-profit businesses under the guise of standing up for something cool/noble...but they are just profiteers and pompous a***oles, who are arrogant, entitled, titty babies and cowards that decided to stand up for their profits instead of principle and goodness that benefits all of society.
Right now we, most of The People, have our hedonist hats on and we're emotionally/spiritually fat and sedentary, lazy as F***, and are too cowardly to go clean up the streets when people are openly trashing them. We wait for them to leave because they might yell at us and get other people to call us names that hurt our feels or might get us fired from the Oligarchical tyrants that we work for.
And still most of The People have more class than BRCC/USCCA stooges who are simply running for-profit businesses under the guise of standing up for something cool/noble...but they are just profiteers and pompous a***oles, who are arrogant, entitled, titty babies and cowards that decided to stand up for their profits instead of principle and goodness that benefits all of society.
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p.s.
I love coffee too, and Community Coffee has done more for Louisiana than BRCC/USCCA ever will. I'll probably stick with them as my generic default, and when I want "special" coffee I'll buy it from people who actually care about coffee, sourcing/producing especially small and specialty batches, rather than supporting a company that likely rebrands products and pretends its authentic while pushing bul***** stereotypes of what Veterans are supposed to look & act like so they can make more money off of a small and already heavy manipulated group of people. I see them as parasites looking for easy hosts, personally.
I love coffee too, and Community Coffee has done more for Louisiana than BRCC/USCCA ever will. I'll probably stick with them as my generic default, and when I want "special" coffee I'll buy it from people who actually care about coffee, sourcing/producing especially small and specialty batches, rather than supporting a company that likely rebrands products and pretends its authentic while pushing bul***** stereotypes of what Veterans are supposed to look & act like so they can make more money off of a small and already heavy manipulated group of people. I see them as parasites looking for easy hosts, personally.
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