12 gauge OO buck; best self defense round

The Best online firearms community in Louisiana.

Member Benefits:

  • Fewer Ads!
  • Discuss all aspects of firearm ownership
  • Discuss anti-gun legislation
  • Buy, sell, and trade in the classified section
  • Chat with Local gun shops, ranges, trainers & other businesses
  • Discover free outdoor shooting areas
  • View up to date on firearm-related events
  • Share photos & video with other members
  • ...and so much more!
  • honestlou

    Well-Known Member
    Rating - 100%
    7   0   0
    Feb 17, 2009
    1,161
    38
    Baton Rouge
    I am looking for opinions (or facts) regarding the best self-defense shotgun ammo. Specifically, I'm comparing number of pellets versus velocity in a 12 gauge 00buck. I know that there are lots of other choices, but at the moment I am only comparing 00 buck in 2 3/4" and 3", due to the popularity and availability of 00 buck and guns with these chambers, and to limit the size of the comparison. This is the information that I've gathered thus far:

    Brand/Product Size Number of pellets Velocity

    Hornady Critical Defense 2 3/4" 8 pellets 1600 fps
    Hornady Superperformance 2 3/4" 8 pellets 1600 fps
    Federal Premium 3" 15 pellets 1100 fps
    Federal Premium 2 3/4" 9 pellets 1325 fps
    Federal Premium 2 3/4" 12 pellets 1290 fps
    Remington Express Buckshot 2 3/4" 9 pellets 1325 fps
    Remington Express Magnum Buckshot 2 3/4" 12 pellets 1290 fps
    Remington Express Magnum Buckshot 3" 15 pellets 1225 fps
    Winchester Ranger 2 3/4" 9 pellets 1145 fps
    Winchester Super-X 2 3/4" 9 pellets 1325 fps
    Winchester Super-X 3" 15 pellets 1210 fps

    [I attempted to space out this data in table form, to no avail. If someone can make it more readable, please do so.]

    So, this list is not exhaustive, but it is illustrative, of the current offerings. Frankly I got tired of doing the research, and I'm sure that others make great products and special products targeted toward home defense or law enforcement. It seems that I'm seeing a trend based on the physical constraints of the shotshell and/or firearm.

    But basically my question is the value of 15 pellets at 1225 fps versus 9 pellets at 1325 fps, or 8 pellets at 1600 fps. I suppose the higher velocity shells would have better penetration, but I'm not sure if that is significant for home defense, and may even be a detriment. I would also suppose that there are differences in recoil, but again I don't know if that is a significant factor in home defense.

    I'm aware of the reduced recoil loads, and of the 'flight control' loads, etc, that aim for better patterning. Again, significance in home defense?

    My gut says go with the 3", 15 pellets, at 1225 fps. What say you all? Please limit discussion/advice/argument to shotguns and buckshot. I wouldn't mind additional input as to mixed loads or other preferred shot sizes, but please don't turn this into a caliber/ballistics war.
     

    Cochise

    is not here
    Rating - 100%
    3   0   0
    Feb 19, 2012
    1,111
    36
    Calhoun
    Call me crazy, but I think smaller and more numerous is better. I personally wouldn't go bigger than #2 buck, but I prefer BBB or BB goose loads for self defense. They have cleaner patterns, better spread, hold better at intermediate distances(afaik), and people aren't as thick as deer anyway. BBB shot is 4.83 mm in diameter and BB is 4.57mm. Just my odd-ball $.02

    http://www.shotgunworld.com/amm.html
     

    JBP55

    La. CHP Instructor #409
    Premium Member
    Rating - 100%
    338   0   0
    Apr 15, 2008
    16,999
    113
    Walker
    The Federal Tactical Bonded LE13200 OO Buck 9 Pellet at 1145 FPS penetrates these distances in standard FBI tests.
    23.25 in Gel, 24.00"+ in Heavy Clothing, 17.25" in Steel, 20.50" in Wallboard, 18.50" in Plywood, 18.50" in Safety Glass.
    The LE12700 OO Buck 9 Pellet at 1325 FPS is similar but it penetrates 2.00" more in Gel and 4.00" more in the Safety Glass test.
     
    Last edited:

    honestlou

    Well-Known Member
    Rating - 100%
    7   0   0
    Feb 17, 2009
    1,161
    38
    Baton Rouge
    The Federal Tactical Bonded LE13200 OO Buck 9 Pellet at 1145 FPS penetrates these distances in standard FBI tests.
    23.25 in Gel, 24.00"+ in Heavy Clothing, 17.25" in Steel, 20.50" in Wallboard, 18.50" in Plywood, 18.50" in Safety Glass.
    The LE12700 OO Buck 9 Pellet at 1325 FPS is similar but it penetrates 2.00" more in Gel and 4.00" more in the Safety Glass test.

    I could understand wanting greater penetration for law enforcement or other mobile uses, where you may need to engage others who are behind cover. But these penetration levels seem about twice what would be needed or wanted in a home defense situation.

    Is there a real downside to the 3" loads with 15 pellets? With an 870, for example my marine magnum, it holds 6 in the magazine, whether 2 3/4 or 3".
     

    Gerberman

    Well-Known Member
    Rating - 100%
    2   0   0
    Jun 1, 2009
    238
    18
    I could understand wanting greater penetration for law enforcement or other mobile uses, where you may need to engage others who are behind cover. But these penetration levels seem about twice what would be needed or wanted in a home defense situation.

    Is there a real downside to the 3" loads with 15 pellets? With an 870, for example my marine magnum, it holds 6 in the magazine, whether 2 3/4 or 3".

    I read an article a long time ago that recommended alternating the types of loads heavy/light/heavy etc...
     

    headspace

    *Banned*
    Rating - 100%
    43   0   0
    Feb 9, 2009
    1,462
    36
    Hammond
    +1 on 4 buck if inside the home. Range inside even a large home won't out reach that load and you won't have to worry about blasting thru your walls and potentially hitting a family member, but if you hit your target clean, big damage will be the outcome.
    The best buck load I know of for plain old stopping power at a wide range is Remington 3" in 000. Very fast and hit like a truck.
    But lower recoil will mean faster follow up shots and more control.

    Lots to consider. I keep my pistol grip indoor shotty full of 4buck. The one for outside has 000 and a side saddle with 000 and slugs.

    Man I love a 12 gauge for getting it done
     
    Last edited:

    TomTerrific

    Well-Known Member
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jul 11, 2010
    4,061
    38
    Centre, Ky
    What is the spread going to be at a maximum range of 10'?

    The purpose of shooting in self-defense inside one's home is to kill the sucker.
    :ohreally:
     

    SeventhSon

    Evil Conservative
    Rating - 100%
    52   0   0
    Oct 30, 2008
    3,327
    38
    Slidell
    I read an article a long time ago that recommended alternating the types of loads heavy/light/heavy etc...

    I personally dont like alternating loads. I use to when I first started out but after taking a few informal classes learned that in the heat of the moment you can forget which load is up next. ("oh crap, is the one in the chamber a buckshot or a slug?")

    I dont recommend using birdshot. They leave a nasty shallow wound but unless you are lucky dont get to the vitals.

    I really like the performance of #4 buckshot for indoor use. 00 and 000 buckshot are awesome performers but in MY house the longest feasible shot is about 20 yards with the average being about 10. At that distance #4 Buck is what I like to use.
     

    bwalke1

    Well-Known Member
    Rating - 100%
    28   0   0
    Jul 27, 2010
    410
    18
    Baton Rouge
    regardless of which brand you choose i would stay away from the 3". The 2 3/4" will do the job just as well and i like the idea of having more rounds in the gun. not to metion the recoil for a faster follow up shot and they cost less. i would stay away from the low recoil stuff, it's okay but that was standard issue with EBRSO when i was there and it's just "weak" ,poor penetration ect. both the high velocity and low recoil will penetrate the inside walls of a home so you may as well go with the high velocity stuff and make sure of your backstop. it's buckshot, don't over think it, just buy lots of it and practice.
     

    Hattrick 22

    Well-Known Member
    Rating - 100%
    9   0   0
    Aug 13, 2011
    1,653
    38
    Kenner, Louisiana
    I personally dont like alternating loads. I use to when I first started out but after taking a few informal classes learned that in the heat of the moment you can forget which load is up next. ("oh crap, is the one in the chamber a buckshot or a slug?")

    I dont recommend using birdshot. They leave a nasty shallow wound but unless you are lucky dont get to the vitals.

    I really like the performance of #4 buckshot for indoor use. 00 and 000 buckshot are awesome performers but in MY house the longest feasible shot is about 20 yards with the average being about 10. At that distance #4 Buck is what I like to use.

    Seen a patient in surgery that took a load of bird shot to the chest. He survived but he wasn't a threat after the one shot. I don't know how close the man was that shot him after breaking into his house but it did eliminate the threat. Bg spent awhile in ICU with a wound-vac on his chest and a bunch of little bb's were left on the OR floor.

    Only problem I would see is maybe the bg's family would sue or did sue.
     
    Last edited:

    headspace

    *Banned*
    Rating - 100%
    43   0   0
    Feb 9, 2009
    1,462
    36
    Hammond
    What is the spread going to be at a maximum range of 10'?

    The purpose of shooting in self-defense inside one's home is to kill the sucker.
    :ohreally:

    Roger that. Even from a 18.5" cyl bore barrel, the spread can be measured in inches at that range.

    Anybody wondering how their gun patterns with a particular load need only go out and shoot
     

    honestlou

    Well-Known Member
    Rating - 100%
    7   0   0
    Feb 17, 2009
    1,161
    38
    Baton Rouge
    regardless of which brand you choose i would stay away from the 3". The 2 3/4" will do the job just as well and i like the idea of having more rounds in the gun. not to metion the recoil for a faster follow up shot and they cost less. i would stay away from the low recoil stuff, it's okay but that was standard issue with EBRSO when i was there and it's just "weak" ,poor penetration ect. both the high velocity and low recoil will penetrate the inside walls of a home so you may as well go with the high velocity stuff and make sure of your backstop. it's buckshot, don't over think it, just buy lots of it and practice.

    I can fit 6 shells in the magazine, either 2 3/4" or 3".
     

    SeventhSon

    Evil Conservative
    Rating - 100%
    52   0   0
    Oct 30, 2008
    3,327
    38
    Slidell
    PDX1 FTW!!! :rockon:

    You know, that load is kind of an enigma wrapped inside a riddle for me. I have quite a few boxes of it for testing but I'm still kind of on the fence. What I cant get out of my head is this: If I want longer range accuracy I use a slug. If I want less penetration and more spread I use Buck. If I use the PDX1 I'm kind of giving up on those. If I use it for longer range I still get the benefit of the slug but three flyers with "to whom it may concern" are going right along with it for the ride. If I use it close in I get a spread but the slug penetration is a problem. To me they more of a specialty round. I want to like them, I really do, but those are my concerns currently. Maybe they are unfounded? :dunno:
     

    bwalke1

    Well-Known Member
    Rating - 100%
    28   0   0
    Jul 27, 2010
    410
    18
    Baton Rouge
    I can fit 6 shells in the magazine, either 2 3/4" or 3".

    different shotguns have a different capacity sometimes it's the magazine spring that makes a difference, with my mossberg i don't loose any rounds between 2 3/4 or 3" but with my rem 870 with mag extension i loose one round with 3".
     

    Cochise

    is not here
    Rating - 100%
    3   0   0
    Feb 19, 2012
    1,111
    36
    Calhoun
    You know, that load is kind of an enigma wrapped inside a riddle for me. I have quite a few boxes of it for testing but I'm still kind of on the fence. What I cant get out of my head is this: If I want longer range accuracy I use a slug. If I want less penetration and more spread I use Buck. If I use the PDX1 I'm kind of giving up on those. If I use it for longer range I still get the benefit of the slug but three flyers with "to whom it may concern" are going right along with it for the ride. If I use it close in I get a spread but the slug penetration is a problem. To me they more of a specialty round. I want to like them, I really do, but those are my concerns currently. Maybe they are unfounded? :dunno:

    This mirrors my own thoughts on the PDX1 rounds exactly. The results seem to show that they do work, I just can't figure out how.
     
    Top Bottom