40 s&w debate

[Sapperboomboom]

I had someone cite this article as a source of quality information while having a friendly caliber debate.

The History Of 40 Smith & Wesson Ammo | Trifusion Tactical

40 S&W ammo is one of the most popular rounds today. Aside from being used by private citizens, it is also used by police officers and special FBI agents.

trifusiontactical.com

 

[JBP55]

The .40 pistol sales have declined in recent years and the 9mm pistol sales have increased in recent
years.

 

[Big H]

Most of my shooting buddies have gotten rid of their .40s in favor of
9MM---in my circle of shooters most prefer 9MM and/or .45 ACP---we do still have one or two that still have .40s but rarely shoot them---

 

[JBP55]

Top Selling Guns on Guns.com in 2021 :: Guns.com

2021 has come and gone now and it was a great year for guns sales, both for Guns.com as a blossoming online retailer, and as an industry as a whole. Here are the best selling firearms on Guns.com in 2021.

www.guns.com

 

[Magdump]

I like a good .40 S&W especially for what I’ve collected for the money over the years. I’m heavily invested in ammo that I got at a hella savings and I took advantage of the “kill .40 S+W” sales. I have 13 pistols and a carbine in the caliber. Many I bought at prices that would make you cry. I’ve bought Beretta, H&K, Walther, Browning, FN, and others way cheaper than the 9mm version. As low as half the price brand new.
I’ve seen the arguments that swear the .40 is no better than the 9mm for stopping the bad guy because the 9mm has come so far. Yes, powders and bullets have improved, but that’s spread pretty well across the board and is not necessarily caliber specific.
The 9mm does a fine job.

I know 2 things for a fact: the 9mm ain’t no better than the .40 for getting the job done. The other thing is simple ballistics. A heavier bullet moving at the same speed or faster is going to hit harder. Most 9mm double stack pistols hold 3-5 more rounds than the .40 cal of the same model.
I have faith in both calibers to get the job done.
I bought a couple FNX 40 pistols real cheap, like $269 +$10 flat rate shipping with $5 ten rounds mags and eventually the 14 round mags went to $15 new. At those prices, as long as I have ammo I don’t care which caliber I’m shooting.

 

[m1k3]

The article reads like it was written quite a while ago. Ten to fifteen years ago I used to shoot and carry 40 S&W pretty much exclusively. I have since transitioned to carrying 9 mm exclusively. Still enjoy shooting both 40 S&W as well as 10 mm.

 

[Forgotten]

I love 40s&w. If you have a glock that shoots .40 you can put a conversion barrel to 9mm. It doesn't work the other way around.

 

[JBP55]

I love 40s&w. If you have a glock that shoots .40 you can put a conversion barrel to 9mm. It doesn't work the other way around.

Add 9mm extractor and ejector to that list.

 

[JBP55]

Bare Gelatin

Product Tested	Test Results	Recovered Bullet
53617 - 9mm Luger +P	Velocity	1220
124	Penetration	11.78
GDHP	Expansion	.720
1220	Retained Weight	124.3
53970 - 40 S&W	Velocity	1150
165	Penetration	13.32
GDHP	Expansion	.672
1150	Retained Weight	165.3

Heavy Clothing

Product Tested	Test Results	Recovered Bullet
53617 - 9mm Luger +P	Velocity	1220
124	Penetration	14.13
GDHP	Expansion	.600
1220	Retained Weight	124.0
53970 - 40 S&W	Velocity	1150
165	Penetration	18.00
GDHP	Expansion	.618
1150	Retained Weight	165.1

Steel

Product Tested	Test Results	Recovered Bullet
53617 - 9mm Luger +P	Velocity	1220
124	Penetration	27.63
GDHP	Expansion	.450
1220	Retained Weight	123.9
53970 - 40 S&W	Velocity	1150
165	Penetration	18.80
GDHP	Expansion	.494
1150	Retained Weight	163.8

Wall Board

Product Tested	Test Results	Recovered Bullet
53617 - 9mm Luger +P	Velocity	1220
124	Penetration	12.52
GDHP	Expansion	.660
1220	Retained Weight	124.2
53970 - 40 S&W	Velocity	1150
165	Penetration	13.06
GDHP	Expansion	.628
1150	Retained Weight	165.2

Plywood

Product Tested	Test Results	Recovered Bullet
53617 - 9mm Luger +P	Velocity	1220
124	Penetration	14.00
GDHP	Expansion	.594
1220	Retained Weight	124.5
53970 - 40 S&W	Velocity	1150
165	Penetration	15.42
GDHP	Expansion	.621
1150	Retained Weight	165.4

Auto Glass

Product Tested	Test Results	Recovered Bullet
53617 - 9mm Luger +P	Velocity	1220
124	Penetration	14.95
GDHP	Expansion	.543
1220	Retained Weight	103.9
53970 - 40 S&W	Velocity	1150
165	Penetration	12.80
GDHP	Expansion	.588
1150	Retained Weight	141.4

 

[Sapperboomboom]

Bare Gelatin

Product Tested	Test Results	Recovered Bullet
53617 - 9mm Luger +P	Velocity	1220
124	Penetration	11.78
GDHP	Expansion	.720
1220	Retained Weight	124.3
53970 - 40 S&W	Velocity	1150
165	Penetration	13.32
GDHP	Expansion	.672
1150	Retained Weight	165.3

Heavy Clothing

Product Tested	Test Results	Recovered Bullet
53617 - 9mm Luger +P	Velocity	1220
124	Penetration	14.13
GDHP	Expansion	.600
1220	Retained Weight	124.0
53970 - 40 S&W	Velocity	1150
165	Penetration	18.00
GDHP	Expansion	.618
1150	Retained Weight	165.1

Steel

Product Tested	Test Results	Recovered Bullet
53617 - 9mm Luger +P	Velocity	1220
124	Penetration	27.63
GDHP	Expansion	.450
1220	Retained Weight	123.9
53970 - 40 S&W	Velocity	1150
165	Penetration	18.80
GDHP	Expansion	.494
1150	Retained Weight	163.8

Wall Board

Product Tested	Test Results	Recovered Bullet
53617 - 9mm Luger +P	Velocity	1220
124	Penetration	12.52
GDHP	Expansion	.660
1220	Retained Weight	124.2
53970 - 40 S&W	Velocity	1150
165	Penetration	13.06
GDHP	Expansion	.628
1150	Retained Weight	165.2

Plywood

Product Tested	Test Results	Recovered Bullet
53617 - 9mm Luger +P	Velocity	1220
124	Penetration	14.00
GDHP	Expansion	.594
1220	Retained Weight	124.5
53970 - 40 S&W	Velocity	1150
165	Penetration	15.42
GDHP	Expansion	.621
1150	Retained Weight	165.4

Auto Glass

Product Tested	Test Results	Recovered Bullet
53617 - 9mm Luger +P	Velocity	1220
124	Penetration	14.95
GDHP	Expansion	.543
1220	Retained Weight	103.9
53970 - 40 S&W	Velocity	1150
165	Penetration	12.80
GDHP	Expansion	.588
1150	Retained Weight	141.4

Those are very interesting results. It seems like a 40 out of a subcompact might give you better penetration than a 9mm out of a subcompact.

 

[Barry J]

I sold all my 40's and went strictly to 9mm. Glad I did. Easier and cheaper to load for. Less recoil. Don't have to worry about the Glock bulge.

 

[GunRelated]

I sold all my 40's and went strictly to 9mm. Glad I did. Easier and cheaper to load for. Less recoil. Don't have to worry about the Glock bulge.

Same.

 

[Magdump]

Add 9mm extractor and ejector to that list.

I dropped a Faxon 9mm conversion barrel in my 23 and it ran fine without swapping those parts

 

[JBP55]

I dropped a Faxon 9mm conversion barrel in my 23 and it ran fine without swapping those parts

Everyone is not that lucky.

 

[hunter5567]

I like the 40 S&W. Which one do you think hits harder if all you can get is FMJ ammo. Yes, the 9mm is "just as good as the .40", if you can find performance JHP ammo for it.
As we have all seen in 2020-2021, all that performance ammo vanishes from the shelves and all your left with is FMJ ammo. A flat-tipped FMJ .40 bullet is superior to a RN FMJ 9mm bullet

 

[Barry J]

I like the 40 S&W. Which one do you think hits harder if all you can get is FMJ ammo. Yes, the 9mm is "just as good as the .40", if you can find performance JHP ammo for it.
As we have all seen in 2020-2021, all that performance ammo vanishes from the shelves and all your left with is FMJ ammo. A flat-tipped FMJ .40 bullet is superior to a RN FMJ 9mm bullet

I don't shoot up all my JHP ammo for practice. I use reloads for practice and load up with FMJ when I carry.

 

[Magdump]

Like some have said, it all boils down to ammo choice. The right choice for the right size pistol (barrel length) also comes into play. I typically like a lighter bullet for subcompact/compact pistols, but I also pay attention to the velocity and test barrel statement. The best way to know is to test them yourself. As cheap as chronographs are nowadays it’s a wonder why more folks don’t own one.
When I jumped into .40 S+W in 1990 or so, I started researching that ammo. The guns I bought in the early 90’s were the beretta 96, H&K USP and H&K P7 M10. Corbon began advertising some impressive numbers about that time so I bought, tested and bought more.
Their advertised velocities are from a 4” barrel:
135gr= 1325fps and 526ft lbs energy
165gr= 1150fps and 485ft lbs

By comparison, Corbon’s 9mm is a +p load of 125gr traveling at 1250fps and delivering 434ft lbs of energy.

During my own testing in full size Beretta pistols in both 9mm and .40 S+W, I found that every brand of 180gr .40 ammo I shot was faster than every 9mm 147gr ammo.
I’ll look for the testing done back in the day, but corbon touted the FBI study done back then on a measured sample of police shootings and they stated there was 98% one shot stops in shootings using .40 S+W. I don’t remember all the particulars of a 30 year old published study but that part stuck with me for this long.
When it comes to recoil, I feel a very noticeable difference in 9mm and .40 when shooting the mini pistols, but not so much with my full size pistols. I do notice that the Glock 22 and Walther PDX are the worst, Beretta 96 and H&K USP are very manageable and the FNX40 is absolutely the softest shooting .40 cal pistol I’ve ever shot.

 

[JBP55]

And the 125gr. Gold Dot .357 Sig exceeds the 165gr. Gold Dot .40 in Velocity and Energy.

 

[340six]

My only 40 S&W but was a super deal and new in box.

 

[Magdump]

And the 125gr. Gold Dot .357 Sig exceeds the 165gr. Gold Dot .40 in Velocity and Energy.

Are we throwing the 10mm auto in too?

I know a few people who like Underwood ammo in their .40’s
and it’s easy to see why. 155gr rocking at 1300 fps for 582ft lbs of energy. 135gr at 1400 for 588.
Tad better than 9mm I think.
Remember if you shoot a Glock it’s recommended to stay away from the Buffalo Bore +p stuff due to chambers not being fully supported.
This underwood is not +p:
They supposedly use real world pistols to test velocities.