Martial Law in Arkansas

[GunAddict]

Heard about this yesterday and have not seen it posted already and thought some may think it of interest. Locals there are calling it something akin to martial law....seems that way. You can't violate the 24 hour curfew and even come outside on your own property.

http://www.helena-arkansas.com/news/x1570384758/Ark-city-neighborhood-under-24-hour-curfew

Link to their local newspaper where article is printed with other articles also:

http://www.helena-arkansas.com/

 

[penguin]

Again, I agree with the ACLU. Why invite Martial Law. Why not put the same patrols on the street without the curfew. What, so you now have NO ONE on the streets with heavy patrols? Yeah, that does alot of good. How about you put heavy patrols on the streets at all hours...

 

[GunAddict]

Here's a cnn video from u-tube on the curfew....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDqSROFzDPk&eurl=http://www.infowars.com/?p=3905

 

[greg t]

i saw this the other day and couldnt believe what i was reading! i honestly dont know what i would do in that situation ...

 

[penguin]

So, does anyone here, who has disparaged the ACLU, agree with the ACLU for calling this a miscarriage of justice and unconstitutional? Or do you agree with the methods of the AR police dept that is doing this?

 

[LACamper]

I understand the inclination for doing this, but it goes too far... There are enough laws on the books to accomplish the same things without imposing martial law.

 

[Born4spd]

So, does anyone here, who has disparaged the ACLU, agree with the ACLU for calling this a miscarriage of justice and unconstitutional? Or do you agree with the methods of the AR police dept that is doing this?

I think that is retarded.

I would seriously not obey that law.

I would love to see the mayor try to "pop me in the head".


* They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.*

 

[GunAddict]

New Orleans has crime and this is not taking place here, so it should not be happening there. I am not for or against the aclu, but sometimes I think they go too far with things. I think they are too polarized with some things, but this is not one of them.

http://www.infowars.com/?p=3905


The ACLU of Arkansas has sent Mayor Valley a letter outlining these concerns:
"Imposing house arrest and suspending the Fourth Amendment for law-abiding people is only going to cause more problems for this city," said ACLU of Arkansas staff attorney Holly Dickson. "They need to work with the community to get this resolved instead of treating all of their citizens like criminals."
Such "domestic surges" with police imposing a martial law-style clampdown are now seemingly becoming standard procedure.
There are countless examples in recent months and years of curfews and lockdowns going into place in areas all across the country.
Only two months ago Trinidad, a "troubled" community in northeast D.C., was subject to police checkpoints after a series of shootings.
Earlier this year curfews for minors were introduced in Chicago.
Back in April we reported on the fact that federal law enforcement agencies co-opted sheriffs offices as well state and local police forces in three states for a vast round up operation that one sheriff’s deputy described as "martial law training".
The "anti-crime and anti-terrorism initiatives" involving officers from more than 50 federal, state and local agencies was dubbed "Operation Sudden Impact".

 

[Jeaux E]

Anyone here ever been to Helena ???.........95% of their citizens ARE criminals. Open gunfire in the streets kind of criminals..............
F**k the ACLU..........In this case, having been there, I say do what it takes to regain control........ Martial law is usually that solution in the circumstances that exist in Helena.

New Orleans has crime and this is not taking place here, so it should not be happening there. I am not for or against the aclu, but sometimes I think they go too far with things. I think they are too polarized with some things, but this is not one of them.

http://www.infowars.com/?p=3905


The ACLU of Arkansas has sent Mayor Valley a letter outlining these concerns:
"Imposing house arrest and suspending the Fourth Amendment for law-abiding people is only going to cause more problems for this city," said ACLU of Arkansas staff attorney Holly Dickson. "They need to work with the community to get this resolved instead of treating all of their citizens like criminals." Such "domestic surges" with police imposing a martial law-style clampdown are now seemingly becoming standard procedure.
There are countless examples in recent months and years of curfews and lockdowns going into place in areas all across the country.
Only two months ago Trinidad, a "troubled" community in northeast D.C., was subject to police checkpoints after a series of shootings.
Earlier this year curfews for minors were introduced in Chicago.
Back in April we reported on the fact that federal law enforcement agencies co-opted sheriffs offices as well state and local police forces in three states for a vast round up operation that one sheriff’s deputy described as "martial law training".
The "anti-crime and anti-terrorism initiatives" involving officers from more than 50 federal, state and local agencies was dubbed "Operation Sudden Impact".

 

[greg t]

I've never stepped foot into this town/these towns, and I probably never will. BUT that is completely beside the point!

If there are criminals on the streets, get them off the streets and KEEP them off the streets. If there are known felons in possession of a firearm, arrest them. If the mayor lost control of his city, he needs to step down and cede power to someone who can do the job. If the police aren't doing their job, fire 'em and/or bring in some who CAN do the job.

What it boils down to is someone trying to find a quick fix to a problem which was years in the making. It's not going to be fixed in a matter of days or even weeks. The populace there is going to have to make up their minds that enough is enough and work with law enforcement to get and keep the criminals off the streets.

This isn't rocket surgery here (ode to Louis Awerbuck ) ... if the criminals can act with relative impunity in an area, they're going to flourish! In that regard, they truly are like vermin who need to be eradicated.

The best way to do that is not going to be through *****-footing around; likewise, the best way is not going to be by alienating the citizenry. Law enforcement MUST have the help of the citizens to put an end to this situation.

 

[Screaming Eagle]

What bothers me about it is that it's setting a precedent (not unlike having Blackwater in NOLA) that other communities will be able to use at their own discretion.

 

[mcinfantry]

you fear blackwater? what about using ARMED national guardsmen to police a MAJOR city for over 3 years? where in the constitution is that allowed?

if NOPD cant get straight, then fire the chief, fire the mayor put the town under consent decree and build a NEW police force.

 

[GunAddict]

Anyone here ever been to Helena ???.........95% of their citizens ARE criminals. Open gunfire in the streets kind of criminals..............
F**k the ACLU..........In this case, having been there, I say do what it takes to regain control........ Martial law is usually that solution in the circumstances that exist in Helena.

Greg said it right, these things don't happen over night and will not be corrected that way either. I look at it this way, martial law is like a virus, and if you don't stop it, it will spread. Seems like there are too many people want the easy way out and to let nanny gov take care and protect them. You want roving check points, illegal stop and searches, etc all in the name of safety....you will have neither. I can understand that it needs to be taken care of, but not that way, that's an invitation for more trouble. Think Helena is bad, check this out http://www.nola.com/crime/
I don't dare go to New Orleans without being armed and high situational awareness. And open gunfire in the streets kind of criminals.....Naturally N'awlins

 

[GunAddict]

you fear blackwater? what about using ARMED national guardsmen to police a MAJOR city for over 3 years? where in the constitution is that allowed?

if NOPD cant get straight, then fire the chief, fire the mayor put the town under consent decree and build a NEW police force.

I might be mistaken, but wasn't it Pennington that was doing a pretty good job and then was it Morial or Nagin that came along and more or less fired him??

 

[ajt2341]

you fear blackwater? what about using ARMED national guardsmen to police a MAJOR city for over 3 years? where in the constitution is that allowed?

if NOPD cant get straight, then fire the chief, fire the mayor put the town under consent decree and build a NEW police force.

Where in the constitution is NOT allowed? I'm assuming you refer to the Posse Comitatus Act which applies to federal forces. Thing is the national guard is a state force, not federal, when acting under the direction of the governor. Therefore Posse Comitatus does not apply.

And what do you have against trained MP's, such as those in task force gator, helping out the NOPD? Why is it that they shouldn't have backup? Us national guard soldiers are here to help out where needed. What's wrong with doing something to help the community? Did you also have a problem with the guard going into NO during Katrina and arresting looters and killers that were running around?

 

[Born4spd]

Where in the constitution is NOT allowed? I'm assuming you refer to the Posse Comitatus Act which applies to federal forces. Thing is the national guard is a state force, not federal, when acting under the direction of the governor. Therefore Posse Comitatus does not apply.

And what do you have against trained MP's, such as those in task force gator, helping out the NOPD? Why is it that they shouldn't have backup? Us national guard soldiers are here to help out where needed. What's wrong with doing something to help the community? Did you also have a problem with the guard going into NO during Katrina and arresting looters and killers that were running around?

They were confiscating firearms

 

[ajt2341]

They were confiscating firearms

Yes, they were. While they were being shot in the back for delivering water and food and helping people out of their homes. While I don't agree with them confiscating 100% of firearms when you're down there you can't tell who's going to shoot you and who's not. Keep in mind that was only for a little while. They're not driving around there now still confiscating firearms, simply backing up NOPD.

 

[LACamper]

Confiscating firearms violates the 2nd ammendment. PERIOD. If the criminal points a gun at you, shoot him. Under no circumstances can a local or state government elect to suspend a part of the bill of rights.

I understand the intention in Helena. One difference between middle class neighborhoods and the poor ones I've noticed is the time spent outside. The poor tend to sit in front of their homes, morning, noon, and night. Middle class go inside and watch TV and enjoy the air conditioning, or they stay in the back yard. Also, the middle class tend to follow a normal sleep pattern. Unfortunately, this means that at 2 AM the poor neighborhoods still have kids sitting on the porch, bored, and socializing. Then there's the drug issues and a tendency towards violence in settling disputes. It makes it hard for a patrol officer to decide who belongs and who doesn't.

The national guard: we've used them for Mardi Gras in the past. We've used them after hurricane's for decades. The cleanup from that storm still isn't done. What's the big deal? As long as they've had some form of law enforcement training and not just military training, I have no problem with it.

 

[Bayoupiper]

Back on point here.
I think it does set a very scary precedent.
Even if the entire neighborhood IS criminals, you don't enact a "martial law" type curfew on it.
You armor up your PD, then call in the State Police and National Guard for backup.
Call it "community policing!"

While it is easier and safer for law enforcement to patrol a curfew, this is America and not some third world banana republic.

Well, ok, Louisiana IS a third world banana republic.....................

 

[Bayoupiper]

And do what? Pull a trick from the FBI playbook and burn them out? Do you really think that town could afford all the manpower/overtime to effectively keep those animals from their savagery? One minute after the "task force" pulled out, they'd be right back at it. See Somalia, etc.

I'm not trying to pick a fight here, but ya gotta face reality. We CANNOT change ingrained behavior through ANY means other than removing the infection. And THAT, unfortunately, is simply not politically acceptable.

Put 'em in jail, you say? For every one you incarcerated, two more would take his place. See Los Angeles, etc.

What we're seeing here is a total lack of civilized behavior. These people were brought up that way; they know no different, and don't WANT to know different/better. Roosevelt created this monster, and successive generations of liberal democrats have nurtured and expanded it.

But I note with amusement that the mayor is black. Let's see the Right Reverends Al and Jessie cry racism on this one...

I freely admit to not having a suitable answer. I understand the problem, but the solutions just cannot/will not be implemented. I feel for that mayor; he is obviously desperate and faced with a situation totally beyond his ability to deal with it rationally. Of course, he could be a hydrocephalic moron like Nagin; but I got the impression that he's a good man, a "country" man, who is at his wit's end.

Yes, drastic curfews are a dangerous precedent. I keep telling you guys; The Revolution is right around the corner...

.
.

But we were told that community policing was the answer to all crime................(Yes that is sarcasm)

I think I'd rather find some other idea than the curfew.
Because if they can curfew them, then they can curfew everyone including us!

And yes, that revolution may very well be around the corner.

But as I recall being told by an old LSP firearms instructor, "We shoot better than they do!"