Bass Study in Toledo Bend

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  • Jstudz220

    Well-Known Member
    Rating - 100%
    23   0   0
    Oct 14, 2020
    1,365
    113
    Harvey Louisiana
    Came across this video on YouTube yesterday and found it very interesting. Without spoiling it too much I’ll say the results of this study go against pretty much everything we’re taught or hear about fishing bass.

     

    BIGGREEN

    Well-Known Member
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    25   0   0
    Jan 24, 2010
    395
    28
    Lafayette, LA
    Partial BS or just ignorance. First off, I have a waterfront home on Toledo and have fished there since the 80s The Idea that "High Water" killed the aquatic vegetation is ludicrous. The salvinia was taking over the lake and " Biologists" poisoned it which, in turn, killed the grass. Now, the "Biologists" claim that they DID NOT poison the hydrilla and or salvinia but, ANYONE that has had any experience with this invasive crap will tell you that it is INCREDIBLY resilient to just about anything you put it through. It can be put on land and dry up practically to dust and once it is introduced back into the water it grows again. Well, miraculously, just about ALL of the salvinia disappeared ...along with the good grass. High water killed a bit of grass that was growing along the bank when the water previously dropped, which happens VERY cyclical. The idea that water actually killed aquatic vegetation is sort of an oxymoron. The lack of Hydrilla is what caused the catch count to go down as the habits of fish, as well as fishermen, changed. Secondly, these "Scientists" are messing with a Florida Strain Hybrid Bass, not REAL Black Bass. Floridas grow much faster as well as age quicker and are not NEARLY as hardy as Black Bass. This is why a lot of the Bass they handled died. As far as the catch and travel patterns, this also is due to the lack of Hydrilla which caused the fish to hold on to whatever structure that they could find and feed off of. The BAIT is what steers and keeps fish, plankton is what steers and keeps the bait, wind and surface structure and hydrilla are what determine plankton location. There is just SOOOO much wrong with this video and study. It was done at the wrong time for Toledo to show it's true colors. The hydrilla is back in the lake this year and we are fishing a LOT of hydrilla from 20+ to 4 feet and catching bass up to 6+ pounds, many of which are females FULL of eggs. One thing that I will agree with them on is the use of electronics and their sonar transmissions. A LOT of people are using LiveScope and such to find fish. We started using it about 4 years ago and are finding that the fish are keying in to the association with the sonar and their friends disappearing...lol We will find fish on Mega SI and as soon as we turn the LS on the fish will move. We move with them and the exact same thing happens. We are noticing this more frequently this year more than last, which was showing up more than the previous.
     
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    tbone

    Threadender
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    Partial BS or just ignorance. First off, I have a waterfront home on Toledo and have fished there since the 80s The Idea that "High Water" killed the aquatic vegetation is ludicrous. The salvinia was taking over the lake and " Biologists" poisoned it which, in turn, killed the grass. Now, the "Biologists" claim that they DID NOT poison the hydrilla and or salvinia but, ANYONE that has had any experience with this invasive crap will tell you that it is INCREDIBLY resilient to just about anything you put it through. It can be put on land and dry up practically to dust and once it is introduced back into the water it grows again. Well, miraculously, just about ALL of the salvinia disappeared ...along with the good grass. High water killed a bit of grass that was growing along the bank when the water previously dropped, which happens VERY cyclical. The idea that water actually killed aquatic vegetation is sort of an oxymoron. The lack of Hydrilla is what caused the catch count to go down as the habits of fish, as well as fishermen, changed. Secondly, these "Scientists" are messing with a Florida Strain Hybrid Bass, not REAL Black Bass. Floridas grow much faster as well as age quicker and are not NEARLY as hardy as Black Bass. This is why a lot of the Bass they handled died. As far as the catch and travel patterns, this also is due to the lack of Hydrilla which caused the fish to hold on to whatever structure that they could find and feed off of. The BAIT is what steers and keeps fish, plankton is what steers and keeps the bait, wind and surface structure and hydrilla are what determine plankton location. There is just SOOOO much wrong with this video and study. It was done at the wrong time for Toledo to show it's true colors. The hydrilla is back in the lake this year and we are fishing a LOT of hydrilla from 20+ to 4 feet and catching bass up to 6+ pounds, many of which are females FULL of eggs. One thing that I will agree with them on is the use of electronics and their sonar transmissions. A LOT of people are using LiveScope and such to find fish. We started using it about 4 years ago and are finding that the fish are keying in to the association with the sonar and their friends disappearing...lol We will find fish on Mega SI and as soon as we turn the LS on the fish will move. We move with them and the exact same thing happens. We are noticing this more frequently this year more than last, which was showing up more than the previous.
    I have a waterfront home on Toledo Bend, too. I guess that qualifies me to dispute your opinion.
    I also worked for nearly 30 years for Wildlife and Fisheries as a fisheries biologist. That probably qualifies me more to dispute your opinion.
    Part of my responsibility for most of those years was supervising the control of invasive aquatic plants in the Atchafalaya Basin, Lake Verret, Grassy Lake and Lake Palourde. Hydrilla was a big problem in those areas as it choked off bayous, canals and lakes to the point that it impeded or even prevented boat traffic. There was only one chemical available to control hydrilla in all of those years.
    This chemical could not be delivered in a spray on the surface of the water. It was a slow release pellet that required 24 hours of contact time to be effective. In other words, if there was any current present it could not do it's job. One million dollars of this chemical was applied in Henderson Lake in an attempt to control hydrilla. Since there is a current in Henderson, this attempt failed. Another million dollars worth of this chemical was applied a second time in Henderson Lake and it failed again due to there being a current.
    There is no chemical manufactured that can be sprayed on the surface of the water and kill hydrilla.
     

    sandman7925

    Wealthy women wanted
    Gold Member
    Rating - 100%
    27   0   0
    May 16, 2010
    3,526
    48
    False River
    I have a waterfront home on Toledo Bend, too. I guess that qualifies me to dispute your opinion.
    I also worked for nearly 30 years for Wildlife and Fisheries as a fisheries biologist. That probably qualifies me more to dispute your opinion.
    Part of my responsibility for most of those years was supervising the control of invasive aquatic plants in the Atchafalaya Basin, Lake Verret, Grassy Lake and Lake Palourde. Hydrilla was a big problem in those areas as it choked off bayous, canals and lakes to the point that it impeded or even prevented boat traffic. There was only one chemical available to control hydrilla in all of those years.
    This chemical could not be delivered in a spray on the surface of the water. It was a slow release pellet that required 24 hours of contact time to be effective. In other words, if there was any current present it could not do it's job. One million dollars of this chemical was applied in Henderson Lake in an attempt to control hydrilla. Since there is a current in Henderson, this attempt failed. Another million dollars worth of this chemical was applied a second time in Henderson Lake and it failed again due to there being a current.
    There is no chemical manufactured that can be sprayed on the surface of the water and kill hydrilla.
    Interesting. So the liquid I see them spray on giant salvania doesn’t hurt hydrilla?
     

    sandman7925

    Wealthy women wanted
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    27   0   0
    May 16, 2010
    3,526
    48
    False River
    Not enough to kill a stand of hydrilla much less all the hydrilla in a 187,000 acre reservoir. It might burn the top at the surface but it will not kill down to the turions in the soil.
    Would you happen to know why there is no hydrilla in False river? I’ve assumed it’s the big wakes from the wake boats but I don’t know what I’m talking about.
     

    tbone

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    Would you happen to know why there is no hydrilla in False river? I’ve assumed it’s the big wakes from the wake boats but I don’t know what I’m talking about.
    False River Aquatic Vegetation Control Plan

    I am not personally familiar with False River but the management plan may explain some of the contributing factors. Sediment may be the main factor.
     

    Magdump

    Don’t troll me bro!
    Rating - 100%
    153   0   0
    Dec 31, 2013
    8,636
    113
    Hammond, Louisiana
    False River Aquatic Vegetation Control Plan

    I am not personally familiar with False River but the management plan may explain some of the contributing factors. Sediment may be the main factor.
    False river got them grass carp…or so I’ve heard. Sanctioned or not.
    I’ve watched folks struggle over the years with aquatic weed management and I’ve also struggled with it in private ponds on my old place. The worst I ever dealt with was water meal. People call it green grits and that’s fitting. Had a huge fish kill before I got it abated, using some high dollar chemical to get it done. Bought my allotment of White Amur the following spring and never had another problem.
     
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    BIGGREEN

    Well-Known Member
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    25   0   0
    Jan 24, 2010
    395
    28
    Lafayette, LA
    Let's see...Toledo was being taken over by salvinia, I have seen it from the air and it was BAD. There were a few attempts to control it, to no avail. All of a sudden the salvinia is gone and so is ALL of the hydrilla in the lake...We are from the Gov't. We are here to help you... The EXACT SAME CROOKS that cut timber on the lake so that a wealthy political donor could land his sea plane...Give me a BREAK!
     

    tbone

    Threadender
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    Let's see...Toledo was being taken over by salvinia, I have seen it from the air and it was BAD. There were a few attempts to control it, to no avail. All of a sudden the salvinia is gone and so is ALL of the hydrilla in the lake...We are from the Gov't. We are here to help you... The EXACT SAME CROOKS that cut timber on the lake so that a wealthy political donor could land his sea plane...Give me a BREAK!
    I can see that your mind is made up and there is no amount of discussion that is going to change it. So be it. I'm not wasting any more of my time.
     

    tbone

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    I copied this from the False River Aquatic Plant Management Plan that I posted in an earlier post.

    There was a shift in the aquatic plant community structure of the lake in the early
    1970’s. In 1971, there was 870 vegetated acres in the lake (north end – 440 acres;
    south end – 280 acres; east and west fringe – 150 acres). The north end was primarily
    water milfoil (85%) and the south end was primarily coontail (90%). By 1977, water
    milfoil had replaced coontail as the dominant species on the south end. In the 1980’s,
    prior to completion of the Bayou Grosse Tête Watershed Project, there were dense
    stands of submersed aquatic vegetation on both the north and south flats of False
    River. There was a fringe of submersed vegetation along the shoreline as well as a
    small stand of American lotus (Nelumbo lutea) near the south flats. By 1990, after
    completion of the first phase of the project, the north flats became void of vegetation.
    Aquatic vegetation was in steep decline for the next couple of years, except for the
    lotus stand.
    Due to the reduction of vegetation on the north end of the lake, the public began
    requesting that LDWF transplant native vegetation from the south end to the north
    end of the lake. This request was not filled due to monetary constraints. LDWF
    stated that the primary reason for the disappearance of aquatic vegetation is
    sedimentation and turbidity issues following storm events. The department also
    speculated that the unauthorized introduction of grass carp to the lake could be
    contributing to the decline in aquatic vegetation.
    Hydrilla (Hydrilla verticillata) was documented for the first time on the lake in 1993
    near the south end. By 1994, dense stands of hydrilla were obstructing boating access
    to many camps on the southern end of the lake. The PCPPJ financially assisted
    LDWF in clearing small areas of hydrilla for boating access. Total treatment area
    was approximately 10 acres. As the sedimentation and turbidity of the lake
    worsened, the hydrilla was no longer able to survive. In September 2001, large
    amounts of rainfall from Tropical Storm Allison increased the sediment load into the
    lake. As a result, there was no evidence of hydrilla in the 2002 vegetation surveys.
    The Lewisville Aquatic Ecosystem Research Facility was funded by the parish in an
    attempt to establish submersed native vegetation in 2000. Results of a 2003
    vegetation survey indicated that there was no survival of introduced vegetation, even
    in the protected enclosures.
    There was a stand of approximately 40 acres of lotus on the south flats annually.
    Turbidity did not hinder the growth of lotus because it was able to grow to the surface
    for sunlight, and lotus has substantial root systems. Lotus has not been present in the


    lake since 2009.
    The Louisiana Department of Agriculture and Forestry (LDAF) tested lake water for
    atrazine in May of 1997. Results showed that atrazine levels in the lake were less
    than 1 ppb. This low level of herbicides from agricultural runoff would not have
    contributed to the disappearance of lake vegetation.
    Soil samples were collected from the littoral zones of the lake in January 2010.
    Analysis of sample nutrients and alkalinity suggest that the soil is suitable for plant
    growth. However, the instability of the soil and the continuous input of silt are not
    conducive to the re-establishment of vegetation.
    A 2011 survey indicated that there was a 15-acre stand of southern naiad located in
    the south flats. This was the first evidence of submersed aquatic vegetation, besides
    lotus, in the lake since 2001. The establishment of southern naiad is evidence that
    lake conditions may now be more conducive to vegetation establishment. These
    improvements are following the work done in the M-1 canal in 2005 and the work
    done in the Patin Dyke canal on the north end of the lake in 2010.
     
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