Conservative/right wing = Gun nut?

[Mwill75]

I'm lean left on many if not most things. Yet I believe every living thing has a right to defend themselves by the most efficient means. I believe that this is not only a constitutional right, but a law of nature.

So why is it that ya'll right-wingers get all the credit for being gun nuts?

Discuss!

 

[Quickdraw22]

So why is it that ya'll right-wingers get all the credit for being gun nuts?

Because people are scared of what they don't know. Guns get absolutely terrible publicity, and it's because of every news station wanting a hot story. Not many will watch a segment that says "Gun owner kills intruder and saves family", but they WILL watch "Gunman kills 75 and burns down school" - and that's what they will remember. The only thing they know is that guns are meant to kill people - and nothing else.

Many also blame the gun for killings. Although a gun is a part of the crime, it's not the reason, and many do not understand this. This is the same thing I tell my lefty friends who absolutely hate firearms.......

-When someone takes a bunch of people hostage and begins shooting, what is he called??

A gunMAN.

Do they say the gun held people hostage?? NO

The MAN held the people hostage, and he just happened to have a gun.



Maybe I'm rambling, but if people were more educated on this sort of topic, they wouldn't be such pansies. Even my GAY friends who are 100% Democrat support gun rights, but only because they were educated on gun safety.

Hopefully this makes some sort of sense.

DAVE

 

[kcinnick]

Left is a complete dictatorship, completely controlling the people. The people having guns does not fit in with a leftist philosophy, How do you control people who have guns?

Right is individual rights, people controlling their own lives. People having guns fits in perfectly with the right philosophy.

I don't see how anyone can brag they lean to the left, I often wonder if they even know what it means. I for one never want to see the goverment steal more power from the people.

 

[Mwill75]

Left is a complete dictatorship, completely controlling the people. The people having guns does not fit in with a leftist philosophy, How do you control people who have guns?

Right is individual rights, people controlling their own lives. People having guns fits in perfectly with the right philosophy.

I don't see how anyone can brag they lean to the left, I often wonder if they even know what it means. I for one never want to see the goverment steal more power from the people.

That's subjective...and as you lean to the right I can understand why that is your subjective view, though I will politely disagree with it. Though I don't like to label stuff as such, most people like things that fit into neat little boxes that they can yell at. So I use the terms "left" and "right", "democrat", "republican", "communist", "capitalist" ect. So I don't make people's nose's bleed by forcing them to think outside of their pigeon holes.

But I digress, the point of my post was not to rile up self-proclaimed conservative, right-wingers possible closet racists into a frenzy about why the left is so awful, but more a question of why do people feel gun ownership and self-defense is a conservative, right wing only type of thing.

 

[flamatrix99]

I am not a very conservative Republican but I am not liberal either. More middle of the road. I am not a big religion guy. Thats great you believe in something but do not try and be a bible thumper with me.
I don't want socialism but at the same time I don't think the gov't and country is going to hell and they are taking all our rights away every ten minutes either. Obamanation doesn't need to be trying to control the banks, auto industry, health care, ect. If people need health care then they need to get the education/training to move up in the world and get a type of job that has those benefits or so they can afford to pay for it themselves. I also don't understand why I am expected to pay into socail programs that support extended laziness and general pieces of sh*t. Sure help people out to get back on thier feet but jeez there has to be some limit.

 

[CEHollier]

Right wing conservative = gun nut

Left wing liberal = totally nuts

 

[Mwill75]

Lol i see this conversation isn't going to happen here. Too many chips on too many shoulders.

Atleast we all like guns

 

[flamatrix99]

Right wing - individual right to own and gun and protect oneself. Leftists - gov't will take care of the people (military/LEO) so no need for individual right to bear arms.

 

[Quickdraw22]

Lol i see this conversation isn't going to happen here.

And you didn't know this before posting

I'm not that smart, and I could have told you that

 

[Mwill75]

Right wing - individual right to own and gun and protect oneself. Leftists - gov't will take care of the people (military/LEO) so no need for individual right to bear arms.

Is that what the left really means? Maybe that is what the term has come to mean in the United states.

I was under the impression that to be "on the left" meant to be against the status quo, to be for progressive movements. Pro egalitarianism, anti-exploitation. Bassically leaning towards an ideology that the way things work currently are not the best or most humane way and that radical changes should occur to move towards that.

I don't see how any of that should conflict with self defense or gun ownership.

I think that the reason why the idea of anti gun = left has been proliferated so much here is that so many liberal reformist and PPP(poor people panderers) like to put on the facade that they are all for "the people". People get killed by guns so guns = bad. And these people, for some reason are associated with the left.

In other words I don't believe anti-gun fits in with any ideology of the left that I know of.

 

[CZowner07]

Do you ever hear of a conservative poloticians wanting to put big taxes on gun and ammo, take away gun rights, ban semi auto military style weapons, prosecute people for commiting homocide in self-defence,etc??? BUT you always see Liberals poloticians voting for all those things.

 

[flamatrix99]

Many people don't feel the need for self defense. I did not grow up in a house that had guns. In my 43 years I haven't felt I needed to be armed 24/7 every where I go. Now certain times and locations yes. Matter of act it's only been the last couple years that I started collecting guns. Not saying that I was against them but I just never exercised the right. Even now I have a CHP but I rarely carry only when going to a bad area. I do keep weapons at home for home defense.

 

[Gus McCrae]

Right is individual rights, people controlling their own lives. People having guns fits in perfectly with the right philosophy.

What about gay marriage, pro-abortion, legalizing drugs and other activities that are generally "left" of center.

 

[mrdbeau]

What about gay marriage, pro-abortion, legalizing drugs and other activities that are generally "left" of center.

Gay marriage? Do gays not already have the same rights as everyone else? Do gays not have the ability to leave each other property, etc. (through a will)? Gays can already do everything anyone else can without having to use the title of "marriage."

Abortion? A woman already has, last I check, a shitload of control in whether or not she gets pregnant, up to and including not spreading her legs in the first place. No reason to kill a baby just because some woman ****ed up.

Legalizing drugs would be great, if you and I didn't have to pay for all of the drug-addicted assholes that would suck off the government tit. I've got ZERO problem with legalizing drugs in theory, but right now, my tax money already has to go to all sorts of sorry asses that can't take of themselves and I sure as hell don't feel like adding a whole new group of people onto that system.

Conservatism is about logic, liberalism is about emotions and feelings. I don't have a problem if someone wants to "feel good" about what they're doing, but I will say they're a douche bag for using my money to assuage their guilt.

 

[Gus McCrae]

Conservatism is about logic, liberalism is about emotions and feelings. I don't have a problem if someone wants to "feel good" about what they're doing, but I will say they're a douche bag for using my money to assuage their guilt.

Apparently, you missed the point of my previous post. I was pointing out the fallacy that Right = Individual rights when obviously that's not entirely true with the current group of people who are right wingers.

 

[mrdbeau]

Apparently, you missed the point of my previous post. I was pointing out the fallacy that Right = Individual rights when obviously that's not entirely true with the current group of people who are right wingers.

No, I was refuting the point of your previous post. Conservatism is precisely about individual rights and responsibility. You brought up examples of issues where you believe that is not the case, but you're wrong, as I pointed out.

 

[kcinnick]

That's subjective...and as you lean to the right I can understand why that is your subjective view, though I will politely disagree with it. Though I don't like to label stuff as such, most people like things that fit into neat little boxes that they can yell at. So I use the terms "left" and "right", "democrat", "republican", "communist", "capitalist" ect. So I don't make people's nose's bleed by forcing them to think outside of their pigeon holes.

But I digress, the point of my post was not to rile up self-proclaimed conservative, right-wingers possible closet racists into a frenzy about why the left is so awful, but more a question of why do people feel gun ownership and self-defense is a conservative, right wing only type of thing.

I think you misunderstand me. What are some of the causes that identify you as "left".

 

[Gus McCrae]

Gay marriage? Do gays not already have the same rights as everyone else? Do gays not have the ability to leave each other property, etc. (through a will)? Gays can already do everything anyone else can without having to use the title of "marriage."

Abortion? A woman already has, last I check, a shitload of control in whether or not she gets pregnant, up to and including not spreading her legs in the first place. No reason to kill a baby just because some woman ****ed up.

Legalizing drugs would be great, if you and I didn't have to pay for all of the drug-addicted assholes that would suck off the government tit. I've got ZERO problem with legalizing drugs in theory, but right now, my tax money already has to go to all sorts of sorry asses that can't take of themselves and I sure as hell don't feel like adding a whole new group of people onto that system.

Conservatism is about logic, liberalism is about emotions and feelings. I don't have a problem if someone wants to "feel good" about what they're doing, but I will say they're a douche bag for using my money to assuage their guilt.

Gay Marriage - you are denying the use of the word and there is no recognized legally binding such as with traditional marriages.

Abortion - At what point is it a sentient being? Are you guilty if your seed hits the ground? Just a thought, don't you have to be born before you are a citizen and protected by the constitution?

Drugs - It's consensual crime. We do restrict the liberty here. We make it governmental responsibility not individual responsibility.

I am not wrong. The current crop of right wing/conservative folks are not necessarily for liberty despite what you might hear from your favorite radio shows.

 

[wezand]

People get killed by guns so guns = bad.

Actually, people get killed by other people with guns. To say that people get killed "by" guns is like saying people get killed "by" knives, or "by" clubs, etc. A few years ago someone was killed in a boxing match. But we don't say that the person was killed by a boxing glove. Words mean things, and those with an anti-gun agenda understand this, so they use words and phrases to mislead. People have been slowly conditioned over the last several decades with anti-gun propaganda which is why so many today express such anti-gun sentiments.

That being said, I do agree with you: every living thing has a right to self-defense. As Henry St. George Tucker said in Blackstone's Commentaries,

"The right of self-defense is the first law of nature: in most governments it has been the study of rulers to confine this right within the narrowest limits possible. Wherever standing armies are kept up, and when the right of the people to keep and bear arms is, under any color or pretext whatsoever, prohibited, liberty, if not already annihilated, is on the brink of destruction."

 

[mrdbeau]

Gay Marriage - you are denying the use of the word and there is no recognized legally binding such as with traditional marriages.

OMG, denying the use of the word. That is clearly denying someone their right to do... something? Wrong. The word "marriage" comes from the judeo-christian religious tradition and it is their right for the term to be used by their choosing. Marriage is only sanctioned and regulated by the state insofar as it matters for tax purposes and other legal issues. You believe that being able to use the term and redefine marriage is a "right" when it isn't. In fact, marriage is not even a right. You cannot marry a 12 year old, you cannot marry your sister; there are many people that you cannot legally or rightfully marry. As far as legal bindings go, there are a number of states that offer civil unions, and, as I already said, a gay couple have as many "rights" as a non-gay couple.

Abortion - At what point is it a sentient being? Are you guilty if your seed hits the ground? Just a thought, don't you have to be born before you are a citizen and protected by the constitution?

I've got a degree in biology and I've dissected human cadavers, looked at numerous preserved fetuses, and seen a number of embryos under microscopes. Point is, a human being is a human being when it has human DNA. If you want to start using an arbitrary definition like "sentience," then we need to start looking at whether people with severe mental retardation and other mental disabilities have "sentience." My best friend has a younger brother with Downs Syndrome... he could not survive for more than a few days in all likelihood without having some kind of periodic supervision. Babies cannot be defined as "sentient." And we could go on and on... As far as the Constitution goes, it says you have a RIGHT to LIFE, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. If it's ok for me to kill you before you're born, then what happened to the right to life? Guess it isn't there...

Drugs - It's consensual crime. We do restrict the liberty here. We make it governmental responsibility not individual responsibility.

Again, I made my point with drugs perfectly clear. If people were going to do drugs and then have to deal with the fallout ON THEIR OWN, then I would be 100% fine with it being legalized. I have never and will never use drugs, but I've got absolutely no problem with someone sitting in their house smoking weed and being a loser if that's what they want to do. But, as I said, I'm damn sure not going to pay for their rehab when they get addicted to coke, or pay for welfare for them because they can't maintain a simple job, or anything of the like. If we break down the socio-governmental network of using tax money to help out people with problems they have created for themselves, then hey, people can smoke as much weed as they want and I'm fine with it.

I am not wrong. The current crop of right wing/conservative folks are not necessarily for liberty despite what you might hear from your favorite radio shows.

You clearly don't understand conservatism as a philosophy. That's ok, because the vast majority of people, even those that are conservatives, do not either. I would be more than happy to have a discussion on conservatism as a philosophy and the merits of that philosophy within our government's framework, but I'm not sure this is the thread to do it in.