Dealer Sample

[CajunTim]

What does this mean? Pre/Post
Who can own these?

 

[lw55566]

hello-

Only an FFL/SOT may own any type of pre or post sample. The only exception is that an FFL/SOT may keep pre samples after he gives up the license.

Generally presamples are MG's that were imported after 1968. After 1968 no MG's could be imported for civilian sale. These can be transferred between FFL/SOT's with out hassle. This is why their values are almost as high as transferables.

MG's registered after 1986 cut off are post samples. For a transfer to be approved to an FFL/SOT he/she must poscess a letter from a law enforcement/gov. entity requesting a demonstration of that particualar type of weapon (ie M16A2). The FFL may keep the weapon in his inventory. When he gives up license the gun must be transfered to LE, another FFL with a demo request letter for that particualr model or destroyed.

Hope this helps

If you are non FFL and want a MG only look at "transferable" guns. They are quite addictive

I know a couple of MG dealers in the state. Let me know If you are looking for one, I'd be glad to help.

 

[CajunTim]

Welcome to the site.

Thanks for the info. I always see these and they are inexpensive compared to other class III and was just wondering what the deal is with them. So, someone can get their FFL then purchase a pre and let their FFL expire and keep the FA for themself

 

[spanky]

Welcome to the site.

Thanks for the info. I always see these and they are inexpensive compared to other class III and was just wondering what the deal is with them. So, someone can get their FFL then purchase a pre and let their FFL expire and keep the FA for themselv

Once the FFL expires the firearm must be sold or otherwise disposed of, afaik.

 

[LouisianaCarry]

hello-

snip.

Awesome first post, dude!

Welcome to the site!

 

[lw55566]

Presample guns can be kept by license holder after the FFL expires. When the individual dies or sells them they must go back to a current FFL.

So, someone can get their FFL then purchase a pre and let their FFL expire and keep the FA for themself

Yes, but it is not so simple. The ATF is apparently very aggresive about assuring you want the FFL to run a business. That means a physical location that meets zoning requirements (this eliminates many home based FFL's), has local business licenses, etc. Presamples aren't so cheap as to be the sole reason to get FFL. Also many guns are not availible as presamples.

Good example MG34:
transferable: about 24-28K
presample: about 12K
postsample: 1k, basically value of parts

Colt M16A1
transferable: about 14K
presample: none availble (remenber presample are guns imported between 1968 and 1986, so all foriegn made or surplus US reimported)
postsample new M4: 1400

sadly, value is in the paperwork; not the gun

There is a ton of info on the more MG related boards

 

[spanky]

Good example MG34:
transferable about 24-28K
presample about 12K
postsample 1k

good ole US of A.

 

[CajunTim]

Thanks again.

 

[lw55566]

any time Cajun Tim...

 

[MPI]

lw55566, another little note about pre-sample guns is that they can be transferred to an heir one time in a will. So if I have a pre-sample and I die, that gun can be transfered to a relative, but if that relative wants to sell the gun they must sell to another FFL/SOT. The heir who orignally got the guns by inheriting them cannot leave them to someone his will.

 

[lw55566]

MPI-

We must resepectfully agree to disagree. I believe the scenario you propose is incorrect...

I have never seen any thing about this., but think about it... If an individual person has an FFL/SOT and gives it up the guns is still on the Form 3 in that person's name.

Transfering the gun to an heir would require a transfer. When exmained by the ATF examiner he would see the heir is not a FFL/SOT I strongly believe the transfer would be stoped right there.

The only exception I can imagine would be if the FFL/SOT was held by a company or LLC. Once the license was given up the gun stays in the Company/LLC's inventory. The owner dies, the company is inherited by an individual. The individual now owns a company that owns a presample he may use.

Post this senario on subguns.com

Many large volume very experienced FFL/SOT's post there. Perhaps one of them has more info.

Another problem is that ATF examiners have made mistakes. There are times when pre and post samples have improperly transferred to unlic. individuals. There was recently a case when ATF discovered a mistake like this had happened. ATF demanded the gun from the current owner even though the mistake had been made multiple transfers before. So owner lost $10000 gun to gov with NO recourse...even though gov made mistake.