EDC: Light/Optic on pistol or not?

[southerncanuck]

To the best of my knowledge, based on the Active Self Protection analysis of thousands of civilian defensive shootings, a WML hasn't once been part of the equation. Again, that's for civilians outside the home. So I personally don't bother, but there's no real drawback to having one on your pistol other than an extra inch of plastic in your pants, so whatever turns your crank.

That said, I am obsessed with handheld EDC lights. So much so that I started making them, as most of y'all know by now. It's easily the most-used piece of kit that I carry, and a wildly underrated piece of defensive equipment.

 

[AustinBR]

The other advantage of a handheld is that 1000+ lumens to the face can be a total attitude adjustment.

If someone is walking up to you with the intent to cause harm, be difficult, or even to just ask for a few bucks, a really bright light to their chest with spill to their face can 100% change their mind. And it only takes a slight pivot to move the spot up to their face which can remove their ability to see you or what's around them.

I also carry a POM Pepper Spray in addition to my Modlight!

 

[buttanic]

I carry a hand held, what's it about the old safety rule, don't point a gun at anything you aren't ready to destroy. Seems gun mounted lights break that rule.

 

[Bigchillin83]

I carry a hand held, what's it about the old safety rule, don't point a gun at anything you aren't ready to destroy. Seems gun mounted lights break that rule.

Till you want to destroy it lol…

I agree civilian life is diff, with pointing a pistol, but LE point guns and wml at people all the time, do gain control of a situation and untill they can figure out if they can go to less lethal and they don’t instantly get destroyed…. Finger off the trigger…. Handheld is nice, and a plus, and each situation has to be held diff…. I wouldn’t wanna be in a situation that I drew a handheld light saber to ward off a attacker and he hit me with tire iron while I’m trying to swap to my pistol and get the light outta my hand lol …. but I deff wouldn’t hesitate to draw and present a pistol with a wml and point it at a would he attacker, cause at that point I am willing to destroy them… balls in there court then…

 

[Bam Bam]

When I first started carrying in Ga due to my job (early 2000's) lights were big and expensive so I had a hand held light I used in my work but never carried a light. I'm somewhat of a flashlight geek now and have a few on some of my weapons, but like the the majority says I should carry a hand held light. I too would be interested in a poll.

 

[AustinBR]

Till you want to destroy it lol…

I agree civilian life is diff, with pointing a pistol, but LE point guns and wml at people all the time, do gain control of a situation and untill they can figure out if they can go to less lethal and they don’t instantly get destroyed…. Finger off the trigger…. Handheld is nice, and a plus, and each situation has to be held diff…. I wouldn’t wanna be in a situation that I drew a handheld light saber to ward off a attacker and he hit me with tire iron while I’m trying to swap to my pistol and get the light outta my hand lol …. but I deff wouldn’t hesitate to draw and present a pistol with a wml and point it at a would he attacker, cause at that point I am willing to destroy them… balls in there court then…

There is a major difference between a LEO pointing a gun/WML at someone and a civilian doing the same thing. One is legal and one is likely brandishing and possibly even assault, depending on the situation.

 

[Bigchillin83]

There is a major difference between a LEO pointing a gun/WML at someone and a civilian doing the same thing. One is legal and one is likely brandishing and possibly even assault, depending on the situation.

ill take that charge... it will be at my last resort if i have to do it and is a charge id be willing to accept... thats also assuming the so called " victim" sticks around for his side of the story and doesnt run, and i will have my wife and children including myself as the real victim to make a statement, and we were all in fear for our life..

I understand your argument if i hear a garbage can get knocked over and i draw my pistol with a wml vs pulling out a handheld.. but thats not apples to apples... If you are confronted by sombody with evil intent, pulling out a handheld light aint gonna help you.. and i would expect all of you who carry only a handheld practice and practice alot... its very different from play clearing your house/practice with a handheld and a pistol vs stressful environment trying to keep pistol on target with one hand and a handheld lighting up target with the other, but thats where the wml comes in i guess, do you guys practice fast drills with handled or transitions from hand held lights to wml, just an honest question, because other than movies i have never seen anybody practice with a handheld cqb situation

 

[AustinBR]

ill take that charge... it will be at my last resort if i have to do it and is a charge id be willing to accept... thats also assuming the so called " victim" sticks around for his side of the story and doesnt run, and i will have my wife and children including myself as the real victim to make a statement, and we were all in fear for our life..

I understand your argument if i hear a garbage can get knocked over and i draw my pistol with a wml vs pulling out a handheld.. but thats not apples to apples... If you are confronted by sombody with evil intent, pulling out a handheld light aint gonna help you.. and i would expect all of you who carry only a handheld practice and practice alot... its very different from play clearing your house/practice with a handheld and a pistol vs stressful environment trying to keep pistol on target with one hand and a handheld lighting up target with the other, but thats where the wml comes in i guess, do you guys practice fast drills with handled or transitions from hand held lights to wml, just an honest question, because other than movies i have never seen anybody practice with a handheld cqb situation

I think we really need to dissect and differentiate between scenarios:
1) Inside your home.
2) Outside world.

1) Inside your home:
Pointing a firearm with a WML at someone inside your house who isn't supposed to be inside your house is probably not going to get you in any trouble whatsoever.

Pointing a firearm at someone inside your home who IS supposed to be there probably won't get you in any trouble, either, but is a bad move. Guns should only get pointed at things that you intend to destroy.

I'd argue that a WML can definitely serve a purpose inside a home - but it's not just a slap it on and forget it type thing. You'd need to train with it, otherwise under the stress of a "grab the gun" scenario, you'll probably forget the light exists.

2) Outside world:
Pointing a gun at someone who did not need a gun pointed at them is likely a crime. Full stop. You cannot point a gun at someone unless you think they are a threat.

Using a light on the gun to determine that they are a threat is not the right or smart move.

If something knocks your garbage can over outside, do you really have a firearm in hand to investigate? Cameras and decent outdoor lights are a better option.

Most people don't ever have to pull their gun on someone, ever. But a lot of people are confronted with folks who have less than positive intent. Shining a bright light at them to determine what they are up to and what is in their hands is not illegal and will likely end the problem at hand.

If the problem is a problem that requires a gun, in most situations you can literally open hand drop the light and have two hands on a pistol...unless it's complete darkness where light will be necessary to get shots on target. But I wonder what situations an average joe citizen will be in where there isn't enough ambient light and blah blah blah.

As for the question of practice: I've routinely practiced both dry firing with a light in hand and also live rounds at a range. Really everyone should be practicing single hand unassisted drawing with both hands. And then after that folks should practice firing with one hand.

 

[AdvancedLaser]

What also needs to be evaluated for the WML folks is light activation. When I taught for a living it was groups that were far above the average and we did things that arent normally allowed on ranges, or at least unconventional. Imagine doing rollover prone, at night, with a pistol, and a handheld light. Not exactly easy, but target ID is paramount at night, or with dynamic crowds. Try doing a rollover prone engagement around a car with people running in the foreground with UTM or Sim markers.

We would also discuss short target exposures. If you are incorrectly activating your WML with your trigger finger...first off you are probably wrong, and second you are taking the sole job of the trigger finger and giving it a new and incorrect task. Unless you are fighting while wounded, or one hand only, the trigger finger is not what activates the WML, the support hand thumb does. Breaking the habit of some shooters doing this was always a talking point, because ergonomically and body physiology would lead you to believe that the finger thats pointing at the WML (finger off the trigger) is the one that turns it on. Definitely another discussion point for the WML groups.

 

[jtj5002]

What also needs to be evaluated for the WML folks is light activation. When I taught for a living it was groups that were far above the average and we did things that arent normally allowed on ranges, or at least unconventional. Imagine doing rollover prone, at night, with a pistol, and a handheld light. Not exactly easy, but target ID is paramount at night, or with dynamic crowds. Try doing a rollover prone engagement around a car with people running in the foreground with UTM or Sim markers.

We would also discuss short target exposures. If you are incorrectly activating your WML with your trigger finger...first off you are probably wrong, and second you are taking the sole job of the trigger finger and giving it a new and incorrect task. Unless you are fighting while wounded, or one hand only, the trigger finger is not what activates the WML, the support hand thumb does. Breaking the habit of some shooters doing this was always a talking point, because ergonomically and body physiology would lead you to believe that the finger thats pointing at the WML (finger off the trigger) is the one that turns it on. Definitely another discussion point for the WML groups.

TLR7's high switch is decent for support hand thumb.
For x300, this thing is pretty nice.