I Said This (To Get Elected), But of Course; Am Doing This!

[general mills]

How come nobody ever mentions trade school? The world needs welders, plumbers and electricians. I think it is better for a guy to go to trade school for a couple of years and learn a trade than to go to college and graduate with $100,000 in student loans.

I won't say it's better, but is certainly not less. As a country we have moved away form wanting our new generations to learn skilled trades. That is the rout I went, and I have never been long without a good paying job. Some people I know who got business degrees, fine art degrees, philosophy degrees, well..............

 

[kibb]

What stops them from leaving the state now after TOPS pays for their education?

Nothing. There's a better chance of retaining them if they go to school and intern here. More are reluctant to leave if they go to school and have family here.

 

[NOShooter]

^^^^^ The government's biggest, legalized discrimination ever conceived.

This also means that if you can afford it, you can also afford to pay for somebody else that can't afford it!

Aaaaarrrrggghhhhh!!!!!

Gets me fired up!

this... because you work your ass off and see dividends, people who either dont have the skills, the drive or the persistence expect your success to be fiscally punitive and expect that because you've earned what you have, they should get some of it too.

completely infuriating.

On another note, I would not be shocked, nor amazed if marijuana was legalized in the next 3 years. want to de-couple the states success from the oil industry? create another industry that will be THRILLED to pay taxes. Colorado pays for their states needs within the first 3 months of a fiscal year now. This ability is precisely attributed to the legalization of weed.

 

[sandman7925]

What stops them from leaving the state now after TOPS pays for their education?

Not a dam thing. And they leave in hordes.

 

[NOShooter]

Not a dam thing. And they leave in hordes.

the conversation becomes, where exactly can they intern? Especially in Tech sectors? Furthermore, due to the state's economic dependency on oil and gas, during downturns like this, the non O & G businesses in the state also experience a down turn.

Hell even the healthcare payer companies in the state lost money last year. Those sorts of companies generally are regarded as having a money tree out back behind the office.

Non-diversified state economy = precarious situation when the sole vertical crashes.

Furthermore, we can't even do anything like offer a 1% tax abatement for their first 2-4 years to new TOPS grads if they acquire and maintain employment here, because the state is broke.

If you had the flexibility to move to a more stable economic geography, where you'd make more money and have more opportunity, would you?

 

[sandman7925]

the conversation becomes, where exactly can they intern? Especially in Tech sectors? Furthermore, due to the state's economic dependency on oil and gas, during downturns like this, the non O & G businesses in the state also experience a down turn.

Hell even the healthcare payer companies in the state lost money last year. Those sorts of companies generally are regarded as having a money tree out back behind the office.

Non-diversified state economy = precarious situation when the sole vertical crashes.

Furthermore, we can't even do anything like offer a 1% tax abatement for their first 2-4 years to new TOPS grads if they acquire and maintain employment here, because the state is broke.

If you had the flexibility to move to a more stable economic geography, where you'd make more money and have more opportunity, would you?

Absolutely. I don't blame anyone for leaving. Hell I stay here for a select few reasons only. Take away the fishing and hunting and food and this place sucks big time.

 

[NOShooter]

Absolutely. I don't blame anyone for leaving. Hell I stay here for a select few reasons only. Take away the fishing and hunting and food and this place sucks big time.

I'll be the first to admit that i left for 13 years to work on my career. I moved back because i missed the people, food and culture. I have the luxury of working for an out of state company. There is no way that i could possibly be in the same situation if I had stayed. I'd probably be making 25% of what i make now if I hadnt left.

I'm still going to feel the pain in a big way this year with all of the state budget problems. I am absolutely disgusted at the new governor already talking out of both sides of his mouth and use dick cheney style scare tactics.

I'm terrified of what this is going to do to the state's future, in particular the next 5-10 years.

 

[La Rebel]

This thread goes to show how the mentality has changed over the years. I was raised that you pay your own way, that taking government assistance was not a good thing. I understand that some people feel like, well I'm paying all these taxes I ought to get something back if I can but, I'd prefer to get the government completely out of my business and then they can cut taxes instead of raising them. Parents are responsible for preparing their children for life period. If we would all take responsibility for our offspring and our actions maybe we could keep the government from invading every aspect of our lives. The only thing I want from the government is to leave me alone.

 

[dantheman]

The government is never going to leave you alone . The die is cast . It is too easy to control people by offering them free **** in return for their loyalty , or using legislation for those that won't comply .

 

[Blue Diamond]

You do realize that we are all ants in a very big ant farm.

The government is never going to leave you alone . The die is cast . It is too easy to control people by offering them free **** in return for their loyalty , or using legislation for those that won't comply .

 

[BlueShamu]

What stops them from leaving the state now after TOPS pays for their education?

Nothing stops them from leaving the state.

The incentive is there, with TOPS, to either remain in the state or return to the state when their kids are in high school....giving them the same opportunities to fund their kids' college tuition.

TOPS is not free education for everybody. It's available to those that EARN the right to receive it through hard work during their high school years.....at a school in LA. I think the requirements are minimum three years at a LA high school preceding entering college.

 

[sandman7925]

Nothing stops them from leaving the state.

The incentive is there, with TOPS, to either remain in the state or return to the state when their kids are in high school....giving them the same opportunities to fund their kids' college tuition.

TOPS is not free education for everybody. It's available to those that EARN the right to receive it through hard work during their high school years.....at a school in LA. I think the requirements are minimum three years at a LA high school preceding entering college.

And a whopping 2.5GPA.

 

[LACamper]

And a solid score on the ACT. (25? 27?)

 

[BlueShamu]

TOPS is merit based....the better your GPA, the more you get.

So, work harder, get rewarded better. Unless you prefer the union way of doing things....the slug makes the same money as the guy busting his butt.


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[sandman7925]

And a solid score on the ACT. (25? 27?)

20

 

[BlueShamu]

The minimum ACT is based upon the state average....which is currently 20. Additionally, to keep receiving the TOPS money, the student must maintain GPA.


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[sandman7925]

And 1/3 don't maintain their GPA and lose it. I'm against the TOPS program. It would be easier to grin and bear it if I knew that TOPS aid only went to truly talented exceptional students that had a great things to offer. But it doesn't. and just like free cell phones and EBT cards I'm paying into it and get nothing in return.
This thread is like trying to have a non biased conversation about immigration with an illegal immigrant. Total waste of time.

 

[El Rubio]

What u are showing is what the actual expenditure turned out to be; not what was projected.

maybe I misunderstood what you meant by the "budget grew by 40%". Care to explain it?

 

[Emperor]

And 1/3 don't maintain their GPA and lose it. I'm against the TOPS program. It would be easier to grin and bear it if I knew that TOPS aid only went to truly talented exceptional students that had a great things to offer. But it doesn't. and just like free cell phones and EBT cards I'm paying into it and get nothing in return.
This thread is like trying to have a non biased conversation about immigration with an illegal immigrant. Total waste of time.

You have this one correct. TOPS is turning out to be like a Ponzi scheme. It was intended to allow for more lower economic folks to get education opportunities through their individual accomplishment. The point being an impoverished kid's ability to learn and excel has nothing to do with his families economic status. It was also tied into the hope that those kids, when educated, would stay here and help contribute to the state's economy, thus paying the state back in a roundabout way.

Unfortunately, those lower socioeconomic families are not the ones sending kids to TOPS. Turns out, the same kids that always excel are now taking advantage of this gravy train too. And a lot of them too. And now it's too much.

Sand, you have a legitimate gripe. You are paying into something that you cannot quantify provides a return. I don't think this state even knows for sure what the numbers are on who got it, and who actually stayed and contributed. Another good idea, broken!

 

[PPBart]

...I don't blame anyone for leaving...

My daughter left when she graduated from SLU in 1997, said she would never return to live in LA. She went on to grad school in Birmingham, AL, then Providence, RI, then took a job she really loves in Seattle, WA. She still says LA is the last state she would wish to live in.

My grandson graduated from LA Culinary Institute in 2013, immediately left for a job in West Virginia. At least he does allow that he might someday return to LA if the job is good enough...