Some of you may know that I'm a moderator over at KTOG specifically for the SU-16 group, but I thought I would share my experience with Kel-Tec's great customer service for my SU-16. I posted a thread on KTOG about the whole experience, as it happened, but I will condense it down for y'all.
8-20-11 I haven't been shooting my SU-16 nearly as much lately as I use to, partially due to rising ammo cost, lack of time and shooting more with AR/long distance shooting. I have plenty of rounds thru this rifle, nearly 6K IIRC, but it has always been a good shooter.......until lately. Since I haven't shoot it much or with any frequency it's hard to say when this really happened, I tried to get some good groups with it earlier this year @ 100 yds but the wind wasn't cooperating then so I dismissed that time, 3 weeks ago I tried a handful of rounds thru it to warm up before shooting the AR, grouping was horrible. I checked for a loose scope/mount thing it had to be loose to shoot that bad, nope tight! I attributed it to a bad shooting position that trip, today I tried again unsuccessfully. I even tried shooting factory loads, and 2 loads I hand loaded myself, some 68 gr and 75 gr Hornady's which do well in the AR, they sucked. I'm talking roughly 2-4 inches this trip, some have been much worse, like 5-6 inches. Now this may not sound like the end of the world, but this rifle has shot great groups ever since I have had it.
I thought about what changes were made to the rifle that might be the cause of this accuracy issue. I have highly modified this SU since I bought it and everything has improved the accuracy or reliability so I'm at a lose as to why it suddenly lost the accuracy it had. I have installed a "E" stock w/6 position AR stock on it, Red Lion forend and trigger on it and performed a "trigger job" on it myself. The scope is a Leapers Accushot 3-12X44 w/CAA one piece mount. Everything is tight and the scope adjustment today moved just like it was supposed to so I think it's OK. I suck using irons so I didn't even try that to double check the optics, but don't think thats the problem.
With nearly 6K thru the rifle it may be pretty worn and just worn out, but I find that hard to believe, but not completely out of the question. But what could it be?? Here's a few pics of todays groups. FWIW the AR shot pretty good today and I have found 2 different loads that might work for 600 yard competition so I don't think there's a loose nut behind the trigger either.
Todays group, top target 5 shoot lower right were 75 gr hand loads while to 2 lower left were 55 AE. The bullseye sticker is 3 inches across. These groups are horrible in my book. The bottom target was one of the AR's worse groups.
This group was shot a few years ago IIRC using 62 gr AE factory loads which the SU-16 loves.
This group used to be a good group for it years ago.
This group was shot with the AR, 5 shot group less than 3/4 inch center to center.
So anyone have any ideas as to why my beloved SU is having these issues? The rifle has been cleaned/lubed as normal and no issues with function, just accuracy. I wonder if there's a way to check the bore or chamber to detect any wear?
10-18-11 I finally got to recheck my SU-16's accuracy after some advice from ktwm and you guy's. I replaced scope with NIB Simmons 3-9X40, removed the Red Lion forend, checked for carbon build up at the flash suppressor, checked and cleaned bore. I used some 55gr AE ammo this weekend and tried a 5 shot group. first shot in the bulls eye, 2nd 2 inches high, 3rd shot wayyy low, 4th and 5th similar all over the place, but the trend did seem to be more vertical though. I had my brother shoot it next, same ammo and after a brief cool down period, almost exactly the same results, 5-6 inch groups. I was going to save those targets and post pics, but they got thrown away by my brother by mistake. Needless to say I've tried everything, 4 types of ammo (2 hand loads, 2 factory, 55, 62, 68 and 75 grs), 2 different scopes both new, and 2 different shooters.
I know several guy's who have put more rounds thru they SU's than me so I'm surprised that this is happening now. weird huh. Maybe a trip back to the mother ship.
On a side note I did shot my Mosin and using irons I was almost able to get better groups with it than my Charlie using optics! I suck with irons so I was glad I got all 5 shots in a 8 inch see and say target!
10-25-11 I tried shooting another group this weekend checking a few more things for KT. Still having issues, Looks like a trip to the mothership is in order. Now if I can ever get off early enough to ship it there I would be happy. I was hoping I could find something, anything (fixable by me) so I could keep my Charlie as is. I like the way it is right now except for the loss of accuracy that is. I really don't want a "new" one nor do I really care about having a chrome lined barrel, but I do want it to be an accurate shooting rifle bottom line!
In summary tried 2 different scopes/mounts (both new), 4 different types ammo (2 factory and 2 hand loads) and 2 different shooters, best group lately was 5-6 inches. All this with the gun stripped down to bare rifle, no forend or flash suppressor.
BTW I have been in contact with KT thru this ordeal and the advise and help trying to diagnose this has been awesome. Kel-Tec stands behind their products PERIOD!
11-11-11 I talked to KT this week, my Charlie made it to the Mothership and is in good hands. It was checked out and found to have some "excessive barrel wear" that was the cause of the issue I was having. I don't think this is a common round count for a failure of this type, but my rifle was shot heavily during it's first year, my "break in" wasn't too easy on it either. I will be getting a new barrel/receiver soon, but don't know when it will be shipped back to me. I sent it in on saturday and received an e-mail on Thursday that it has been received and checked out and the cause found. They are going to do a little testing it with the Red Lion forend before they ship it back I think.
This is my first time to have to send any Kel=Tec product back to the factory, but I think their Customer Service is the best! I don't know if they would e-mail you back about the issue with your weapon either, but being this was an interesting problem and my relationship with KT may have speeded up the process, but still they have quick turn arounds from what I hear. I hope to try it out soon and get back to making small small groups with my Charlie!
11-17-11 I shipped out my SU-16 on Nov 7th, Kt received it on wed the 9th, Thurs the 10th received an e-mail asking for information and describing the cause of the problem. Tuesday the 15th they sent e-mail stating that it was test fired and grouping checked, today I find package arrived from them, sweet! 10 days from start to finish and I basically have a new "upper" installed and all aftermarket parts reinstalled and tested by them. 10 days is unheard of for this type of repair or service. I have to give it to Kel-Tec, Toby O., Mr Kellgren and the whole Kel-Tec company, they are simply amazing. The scope of service which this case needed was above and beyond the norm so I am very grateful to them for taking the time to test and reinstall my AFTERMARKET parts! Who does that now days. I got a target that was shot to test my rifle, the distance I was told was 50 yards and I am guessing at least a 10 shoot group by the looks of it. Accuracy looks good and I can't wait to test it out soon.
I will reinstall the original scope I had on it and start zeroing it when I get a chance, but I am confident that she will be as accurate as before. Kudos to Kel-Tec!!!
I also decided to add the work order invoice I received, I cropped the top half showing my personal info, but this is the remainder of it, notice the last sentence on the bottom thats in bold print! Need I say more!
Bam Bam
8-20-11 I haven't been shooting my SU-16 nearly as much lately as I use to, partially due to rising ammo cost, lack of time and shooting more with AR/long distance shooting. I have plenty of rounds thru this rifle, nearly 6K IIRC, but it has always been a good shooter.......until lately. Since I haven't shoot it much or with any frequency it's hard to say when this really happened, I tried to get some good groups with it earlier this year @ 100 yds but the wind wasn't cooperating then so I dismissed that time, 3 weeks ago I tried a handful of rounds thru it to warm up before shooting the AR, grouping was horrible. I checked for a loose scope/mount thing it had to be loose to shoot that bad, nope tight! I attributed it to a bad shooting position that trip, today I tried again unsuccessfully. I even tried shooting factory loads, and 2 loads I hand loaded myself, some 68 gr and 75 gr Hornady's which do well in the AR, they sucked. I'm talking roughly 2-4 inches this trip, some have been much worse, like 5-6 inches. Now this may not sound like the end of the world, but this rifle has shot great groups ever since I have had it.
I thought about what changes were made to the rifle that might be the cause of this accuracy issue. I have highly modified this SU since I bought it and everything has improved the accuracy or reliability so I'm at a lose as to why it suddenly lost the accuracy it had. I have installed a "E" stock w/6 position AR stock on it, Red Lion forend and trigger on it and performed a "trigger job" on it myself. The scope is a Leapers Accushot 3-12X44 w/CAA one piece mount. Everything is tight and the scope adjustment today moved just like it was supposed to so I think it's OK. I suck using irons so I didn't even try that to double check the optics, but don't think thats the problem.
With nearly 6K thru the rifle it may be pretty worn and just worn out, but I find that hard to believe, but not completely out of the question. But what could it be?? Here's a few pics of todays groups. FWIW the AR shot pretty good today and I have found 2 different loads that might work for 600 yard competition so I don't think there's a loose nut behind the trigger either.
Todays group, top target 5 shoot lower right were 75 gr hand loads while to 2 lower left were 55 AE. The bullseye sticker is 3 inches across. These groups are horrible in my book. The bottom target was one of the AR's worse groups.
This group was shot a few years ago IIRC using 62 gr AE factory loads which the SU-16 loves.
This group used to be a good group for it years ago.
This group was shot with the AR, 5 shot group less than 3/4 inch center to center.
So anyone have any ideas as to why my beloved SU is having these issues? The rifle has been cleaned/lubed as normal and no issues with function, just accuracy. I wonder if there's a way to check the bore or chamber to detect any wear?
10-18-11 I finally got to recheck my SU-16's accuracy after some advice from ktwm and you guy's. I replaced scope with NIB Simmons 3-9X40, removed the Red Lion forend, checked for carbon build up at the flash suppressor, checked and cleaned bore. I used some 55gr AE ammo this weekend and tried a 5 shot group. first shot in the bulls eye, 2nd 2 inches high, 3rd shot wayyy low, 4th and 5th similar all over the place, but the trend did seem to be more vertical though. I had my brother shoot it next, same ammo and after a brief cool down period, almost exactly the same results, 5-6 inch groups. I was going to save those targets and post pics, but they got thrown away by my brother by mistake. Needless to say I've tried everything, 4 types of ammo (2 hand loads, 2 factory, 55, 62, 68 and 75 grs), 2 different scopes both new, and 2 different shooters.
I know several guy's who have put more rounds thru they SU's than me so I'm surprised that this is happening now. weird huh. Maybe a trip back to the mother ship.
On a side note I did shot my Mosin and using irons I was almost able to get better groups with it than my Charlie using optics! I suck with irons so I was glad I got all 5 shots in a 8 inch see and say target!
10-25-11 I tried shooting another group this weekend checking a few more things for KT. Still having issues, Looks like a trip to the mothership is in order. Now if I can ever get off early enough to ship it there I would be happy. I was hoping I could find something, anything (fixable by me) so I could keep my Charlie as is. I like the way it is right now except for the loss of accuracy that is. I really don't want a "new" one nor do I really care about having a chrome lined barrel, but I do want it to be an accurate shooting rifle bottom line!
In summary tried 2 different scopes/mounts (both new), 4 different types ammo (2 factory and 2 hand loads) and 2 different shooters, best group lately was 5-6 inches. All this with the gun stripped down to bare rifle, no forend or flash suppressor.
BTW I have been in contact with KT thru this ordeal and the advise and help trying to diagnose this has been awesome. Kel-Tec stands behind their products PERIOD!
11-11-11 I talked to KT this week, my Charlie made it to the Mothership and is in good hands. It was checked out and found to have some "excessive barrel wear" that was the cause of the issue I was having. I don't think this is a common round count for a failure of this type, but my rifle was shot heavily during it's first year, my "break in" wasn't too easy on it either. I will be getting a new barrel/receiver soon, but don't know when it will be shipped back to me. I sent it in on saturday and received an e-mail on Thursday that it has been received and checked out and the cause found. They are going to do a little testing it with the Red Lion forend before they ship it back I think.
This is my first time to have to send any Kel=Tec product back to the factory, but I think their Customer Service is the best! I don't know if they would e-mail you back about the issue with your weapon either, but being this was an interesting problem and my relationship with KT may have speeded up the process
, but still they have quick turn arounds from what I hear. I hope to try it out soon and get back to making small small groups with my Charlie! 11-17-11 I shipped out my SU-16 on Nov 7th, Kt received it on wed the 9th, Thurs the 10th received an e-mail asking for information and describing the cause of the problem. Tuesday the 15th they sent e-mail stating that it was test fired and grouping checked, today I find package arrived from them, sweet! 10 days from start to finish and I basically have a new "upper" installed and all aftermarket parts reinstalled and tested by them. 10 days is unheard of for this type of repair or service. I have to give it to Kel-Tec, Toby O., Mr Kellgren and the whole Kel-Tec company, they are simply amazing. The scope of service which this case needed was above and beyond the norm so I am very grateful to them for taking the time to test and reinstall my AFTERMARKET parts! Who does that now days. I got a target that was shot to test my rifle, the distance I was told was 50 yards and I am guessing at least a 10 shoot group by the looks of it. Accuracy looks good and I can't wait to test it out soon.
I will reinstall the original scope I had on it and start zeroing it when I get a chance, but I am confident that she will be as accurate as before. Kudos to Kel-Tec!!!
I also decided to add the work order invoice I received, I cropped the top half showing my personal info, but this is the remainder of it, notice the last sentence on the bottom thats in bold print! Need I say more!
Bam Bam
