Sale Post Deleted - Explanation Please

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  • whbonney26

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    Nov 2, 2008
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    Alright folks, I'm looking into it. It appears that the site owner might have hard-deleted the post (only him and I have the ability to hard delete things). I'm unsure at the time what his stance is on AR pistols that have not yet been legally registered as SBRs, but I'll report back when I find out :)
    Thanks. Looking forward to the response.
     

    whbonney26

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    Also to let y'all know what happened, here is the sequence of events:

    A site user utilized the report system to report that WHbonney26 had a SBR being sold as pistol.

    The forum owner saw the report and "hard deleted" the post, making it where the post is gone forever - probably accidentally. Normally we "soft delete" posts so we have a paper trail of what happened to match up to the reported post log. Soft deleting posts allows site staff to view the deleted item, but they aren't publically visible.

    Sometime after the post was deleted it sounds like the mod team tried to figure out what happened, hence the conversation above.

    My guess is that the hard delete was accidental. Normally when a post is deleted, the mods give a warning or an infraction so the user can see why their post was deleted.

    I have reached out to the site owner for clarification on what happened and if his stance (his company's stance) is to not allow AR pistols that have yet to be converted to SBRs.
    Well thanks for the reply.

    The sale post has actually been on here for a couple months but as a WTT post.
    I recently changed it to put a price and sell rather than trade.

    A short time later I could find no trace of it so I asked here and had several different people (mods) contact me with one or more reasons why it was gone.

    I will be eager to see what the stance and final word on brace pistols will be.
     

    AustinBR

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    Also to let y'all know what happened, here is the sequence of events:

    A site user utilized the report system to report that WHbonney26 had a SBR being sold as pistol.

    The forum owner saw the report and "hard deleted" the post, making it where the post is gone forever - probably accidentally. Normally we "soft delete" posts so we have a paper trail of what happened to match up to the reported post log. Soft deleting posts allows site staff to view the deleted item, but they aren't publically visible.

    Sometime after the post was deleted it sounds like the mod team tried to figure out what happened, hence the conversation above.

    My guess is that the hard delete was accidental. Normally when a post is deleted, the mods give a warning or an infraction so the user can see why their post was deleted.

    I have reached out to the site owner for clarification on what happened and if his stance (his company's stance) is to not allow AR pistols that have yet to be converted to SBRs.
    Okay, following up on this: The owner did indeed hard delete the post after it was reported by a forum user for being a braced pistol. He didn't intend on hard deleting it, but because it was hard deleted he wasn't able to generate a generic "your post was deleted" message to the user explaining why. That was a dropped ball on our end and we apologize.

    I will be making a more detailed post this evening about next steps going forward regarding braced pistols and sale items, but here is the gist of it:

    We think the ATF ruling is dumb. That being said, we don't intend on letting users sell braced rifles with a <16" barrel going forward. We will ask the user to take the brace off of the rifle and sell the brace separately to remove any potential liability or accusations that unregistered NFA items are being sold.

    If we see a post that includes a braced SBR, we will put a big red notice on it that it may be illegal to sell as it is currently configured.

    The legality is in question, but we don't really care to be involved in that discussion. As it stands, it is illegal for FFLs to sell braced AR Pistols (unregistered SBRs) to the general public unless they do so through the typical NFA process. Is it also illegal for non-FFLs? I don't know. But we don't have any interest in testing it out, especially with how easy it is to take the brace off and make the item legal again.

    If anyone has a better suggestion on how we should handle this, please let me know. This decision doesn't have to be final, but in my opinion, it is the fairest option for all parties.
     

    thperez1972

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    Here's an example of a notice that might be placed on an ad. Apparently it has to be in red.

    MOD EDIT: Please note, a weapon with a brace may be considered an NFA item. Purchasing such a weapon with a brace may require an ATF Form 4.

    If I place a notice, I will send the OP a no-point warning so we can make sure multiple mods aren't putting a notice on the same ads because the OP's are taking the notice down. If the weapon in the ad is reconfigured in a way that makes the notice no longer needed and an image of that configuration replaces the old image, please fell free to remove the notice.

    Your ad appears to be for a pistol with a pistol brace. Given the uncertainty of such configurations with regard to sbr's, the site has decided to label and ads we see that are currently posted and to not allow any new ads. Rather than remove your ad, a notice was placed on the ad. We are issuing "no-point warnings" to keep track of the ads on which a warning is placed. That way, we will know if a warning was removed. In those cases, the ad will be removed. If you see any ads for weapons with braces that do not have a warning, you are welcome to let us know. We are labeling them as we see them but we may not see them all. See the post at the below link if you have any questions.
     

    AustinBR

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    To add, we already allow folks to sell NFA items on here, we just require that you label them accordingly and follow all legal steps to legally transfer the item to someone else.

    If it appears that someone is trying to skirt the law and sell braced AR pistols without following the law, we will proceed with removing the post and the user.

    As always, BayouShooter does not condone illegal behavior and will not be used as an intermediary to conduct illegal transfers.
     

    AustinBR

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    How is it anyone's business if someone wants to sell a pistol/SBR? Can the site owner be held responsible?
    Because we have been steadfast in not allowing the site to be used to conduct illegal transactions or illegal activities.
     

    machinedrummer

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    As the good Sheriff Buford T. Justice would say, “you can think about it…but don’t do it”! Hell thinking about braces might be a violation of a rule soon.
     

    AdvancedLaser

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    You are correct, I’ve been in several gun stores that have ARs displayed with braces still attached
    Unless they are registered as SBR's thats the dumbest thing ever for a gun store.

    The ruling, although dumb, is clear...A braced or stocked rifle with a barrel length less than 16" is a SBR. There is no ambiguity to this.

    The 180 days is only for the opportunity to register a lower receiver, as an SBR, tax free as a forbearance.

    From the day the rule was added to the register it became illegal to claim a braced rifle, with a bbl less than 16", as a pistol. Its clear. The 180 days is on the time time you can do it tax free. They decided the document proving you filed a Form 1 to register it tax free, during the 180 days, is proof that you are making a SBR. If you dont have that document, and have a rifle with a bbl less than 16" and a brace or stock on it, its NFA.
    If you remove the brace or stock, its no longer NFA.
     

    whbonney26

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    I have decided to take advantage of the free tax stamp and make the pistol a SBR. If anyone has done this please send me a message. I have some questions.
     

    thperez1972

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    How is it anyone's business if someone wants to sell a pistol/SBR? Can the site owner be held responsible?

    It's not anyone's business unless you make it their business by posting the ad on someone's site. It doesn't really matter if the site owner can be held responsible. The site owner has set the rules for listing braced weapons on the site.
     
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