Stippling on a production gun

[FTRrookie]

After reading Spanky's and nickatnite's comments about stippling on a G34 I'm a little confused. Where can you stipple or tape and where can you not?

The way I read Appendix E4 in the USPSA rule book it's legal as long as it's in the grip, back strap, and front strap areas.

http://www.uspsa.org/rules/2010HandgunRulesProof3web.pdf

What am I reading wrong?

 

[enutees]

If it is the G34 that is for sale on here I saw some stipling on the frame above the trigger guard. You can't even have grip tape there.

 

[SpeedRacer]

In regards to the G34 for sale, the small patch of stippling on the front of the frame above the trigger guard (where your forward thumb rests) is what makes it not-legal.

 

[nickatnite]

If it is the G34 that is for sale on here I saw some stipling on the frame above the trigger guard. You can't even have grip tape there.

This

In regards to the G34 for sale, the small patch of stippling on the front of the frame above the trigger guard (where your forward thumb rests) is what makes it not-legal.

And This...

You are only allowed to stipple what is outlined in the rulebook. Also, keep in mind, if you are using a grip sleeve, it cannot block the palm safety (like on an XD).

I have a problem with the top finger groove on where it fits my hand, so I wrote to get an opinion on using a 2nd Gen G-17 frame with my G-34 and it was a no go. The way it's looked at was that GLOCK never made a 2nd Gen G-34, on a 2.5 Gen (2 Pin) like what is for sale.

 

[SpeedRacer]

In that case it's funny they allow stippling at all. They'll let you do something as a drastic 360 degree aggressive grip stippling, but not remove a little 1/8" finger groove.

 

[nickatnite]

In that case it's funny they allow stippling at all. They'll let you do something as a drastic 360 degree aggressive grip stippling, but not remove a little 1/8" finger groove.

Exactly!!!!

Sometimes they just can't see the forrest for the trees.

 

[Jesse Tischauser]

This is a good example of what you can do to your production Glock 34 and stay legal.

 

[MRBULLRED]

This is a good example of what you can do to your production Glock 34 and stay legal.

Removing the serial number is illegal..

 

[FTRrookie]

OK I got it now. I didn't notice the stippling on the frame/trigger guard area.

Thanks for the help guys

 

[James Cannon]

Wait. WUT?

You've got to be effing joking. I can't have texturing on the side of the frame above the trigger guard where my trigger finger goes when not on target?

Man there are some STUPID freaking rules in this game. I guess my textured frame is a COMPETITIVE ADVANTAGE or something like that.

Guess I'm gonna be shooting "open" with my ****ing stock M&P9 with barely a scratch on the finish lol.

Good thing I'm just shooting for fun, and not to win anything.

I just checked the rule book, and it's very clear. I just never would have expected it, I guess. That's just hilarious.

 

[Jesse Tischauser]

Wait. WUT?

You've got to be effing joking. I can't have texturing on the side of the frame above the trigger guard where my trigger finger goes when not on target?

Man there are some STUPID freaking rules in this game. I guess my textured frame is a COMPETITIVE ADVANTAGE or something like that.

Guess I'm gonna be shooting "open" with my ****ing stock M&P9 with barely a scratch on the finish lol.

Good thing I'm just shooting for fun, and not to win anything.

Nobody will question you at a local match but a major match you might get hit for it but even then it's not a sure thing. I wouldn't risk it at any major match unless you don't mind shooting Open.

 

[BayouSlide]

After reading Spanky's and nickatnite's comments about stippling on a G34 I'm a little confused. Where can you stipple or tape and where can you not?

The way I read Appendix E4 in the USPSA rule book it's legal as long as it's in the grip, back strap, and front strap areas.

http://www.uspsa.org/rules/2010HandgunRulesProof3web.pdf

What am I reading wrong?

You're reading it right. Stippling is limited to only those areas in the diagram, the same areas where you can apply tape.

 

[James Cannon]

Nobody will question you at a local match but a major match you might get hit for it but even then it's not a sure thing. I wouldn't risk it at any major match unless you don't mind shooting Open.

Yea, I am pretty sure no one will care about it, so LIKELY I will still be scored in Production. If they bump me to Open, to be fair to other people, I ain't gonna fuss. But considering I am no threat to the top scorers right now, likely no one will take notice or care, yet.

If I start scoring to the top, I can see where people would want me to have to play by the same rules as the rest (and I won't protest) I just was very surprised that this simple mod was an outlier whereas you can basically do whatever you want to the entire grip.

The line is gonna be somewhere I guess. I just thought Production was geared toward being for guns you would likely carry every day, of which stippling the trigger guard or frame is uber-common these days.

Like I said, no skin off my back, I'm not shooting for trophies or anything, and only attend local matches. Hell, I'm still gonna be shooting from my IWB holster, and not a 'gaming' holster. I'm just there to "maintain" muscle memory and skill sets.

I came off a little bitchier than I really feel on the issue, I admit.

 

[BayouSlide]

Nobody will question you at a local match but a major match you might get hit for it but even then it's not a sure thing. I wouldn't risk it at any major match unless you don't mind shooting Open.

Only an RO who is on the ball and familiar with Production rules would catch it...and that's the problem. Sometimes we let stuff slip by on local matches and people end up at their first major unfamiliar with the rules and end up shooting Open with a Single Stack because their mag bases don't fit the box

 

[BayouSlide]

But considering I am no threat to the top scorers right now, likely no one will take notice or care, yet.

If I start scoring to the top, I can see where people would want me to have to play by the same rules as the rest (and I won't protest) I just was very surprised that this simple mod was an outlier whereas you can basically do whatever you want to the entire grip.

Doesn't matter if you're scoring at the top. In enforcing the rules you have to think about all those guys in U, D or C class who are playing by the rulebook...if you finish at the absolute bottom of the standings, that's right, no harm no foul. But if you end up 15th out of 16, the guy in 16th who was playing by all the rules just got cheated out of a position unfairly.

Rules questions inevitably turn into a bitch session about too many rules, etc., etc. Games have rules...we can't have a meeting before each match and decide which ones we're going to follow this week. The rule book isn't perfect, but it's pretty good and gets better with every revision as it attempts to eliminate shades of grey for black and white. This removes a lot of arbitrary decision making in favor of as level a playing field as we can reasonably create. Sounds fair to me.

The rules are like glass, in my opinion, they don't bend, they break. The rule book is there for anyone to read, and a lot of knowledgeable ROs on boards like this one or Enos can help out whenever someone has questions.

But I personally feel the only time it's OK not to play by the rules is when a person signs up at a match and agrees to shoot unscored for fun. Anything else is unfair to someone else in that division who is playing by the rules. The guys and gals fighting it out for 2nd D care just as much about the result as the top guys.

 

[BayouSlide]

Guess I'm gonna be shooting "open" with my ****ing stock M&P9 with barely a scratch on the finish lol.

Sign up for Limited and texture to your heart's content...then you can even top off your mags

 

[buzzworm]

 

[James Cannon]

Sign up for Limited and texture to your heart's content...then you can even top off your mags

I might look into that. I have always hated the "10 rounds only" in a mag, because I wanna "play" how I would shoot.

I mainly shot production because it seemed to be the way everyone starts out. Now I know I'm gonna wanna shoot time and time again, so I'm more willing to invest time learning proper rules and making sure I do things right. Before, I just wanted to make my 'entry' simple and easy.

 

[BayouSlide]

I might look into that. I have always hated the "10 rounds only" in a mag, because I wanna "play" how I would shoot.

I mainly shot production because it seemed to be the way everyone starts out. Now I know I'm gonna wanna shoot time and time again, so I'm more willing to invest time learning proper rules and making sure I do things right. Before, I just wanted to make my 'entry' simple and easy.

Production has a number of equipment restrictions and a very limited list of mods. Limited is usually the simpliest and easiest place for any iron-sight equipped newcomer to fit comfortably within the rules.

 

[spanky]

Production is Production for a reason. Obviously more grip up there where your thumb rests gives some advantage (or can).

Things like grip tape on the slide is something some don't even notice but it's also illegal.

You could shoot Limited minor and not have to worry about a bump to open.