Thoughts on Mosin Nagant?

[XD45ACP]

I'm thinking of buying a mosin nagant... I know very little about these rifles, I'm considering a 91/30. I am hoping someone can share some advice about these rifles. Also, where is a good place to get one? I would like one as cheap as reasonable, but accuracy is important.
Thanks for any advice.

 

[my-rifle]

I got Mosin-Nagant crazy back when they were $50 apiece, and I bought way too many. Let's just say I can't count them on two hands and leave it at that. Since then I have read a lot about them, and have fired them even more. Why do you want one? Is it to have an inexpensive rifle to shoot? Is it to have a self-defense weapon (don't buy a bolt-action for that)? Is it for the collectibility of the rifle? Is it as an investment? Do you want it, so you can have a gun that can put 145 grains through 3/4" of plate steel? Did I leave anything out?

Your reason for wanting one is important.

The rifles are extremely dependable and safe. The ammo runs (currently) about $25 - 30 cents per round if you buy it surplus by the cases of 1000. I believe the Mosin-Nagant has something like 12 parts. Taking it apart and reassembling it is childs' play.

On the other hand about 7 out of every 10 has been roughly used, and you will find minor stock dents and such. The ones made during 1942 and 1943 have what's called "beaver-chewing" on the outside of the receiver from the rough machine work that occurred in the factories that were under pressure to get rifles to the front. The ones made at Tula arsenal are more desirable than the ones made at Izhvesk because Tula had to relocate east of the Urals during the 1942-1943 years.

The hex-shaped receivers are older and more beautiful/desirable than the round receivers, and almost any Mosin-Nagant from Finland is more desirable than a Russian. The Finns built theirs with heavy barrels, they bedded the actions, and they made the stocks out of heavier wood than the Russians did.

The main variants of the rifle are the Russian 91/30 model used from 1930 up until 1944, the Russian M38 model which is basically a cut-down 91/30, and the M44 which is a cut-down 91/30 with a side-folding bayonet. The M38s are probably the most desirable, but almost all of them were counter-bored meaning they had drills run down their bores from the muzzle to find a crisp crown after a soldier wore off the crown on his rifle from incorrectly using a cleaning rod.

They're all pretty accurate - 1" at 100 yards, but heavy use during wartime has worn the bores on many of them to the point where their groups open up considerably. Their sights are crude, and most suffer from "sticky-bolt syndrome" which means that after a shot they may be extremely difficult to open due to the case being stuck in the chamber. I have often kept a wooden mallet next to me during firing to whack open the bolt. I know how to fix this if you experience it.

That's basically it, but you can find a LOT more at www.gunboards.com in the Collectors' forum, which is dedicated to the Mosin-Nagant.

You can get a good one at www.ioinc.us or www.aimsurplus.com. Do not try to buy on from a gunshop or you'll probably pay too much. Here are some approximate prices.

$79 91/30 round receiver
$89 91/30 hex receiver
$89 M44
$119 M38
$259 M39 (Finnish)

If you want to buy one of mine I have some 91/30s for $79. Feel free to come and look.

Here are two very standard 91/30s that I refinished.

 

[LACamper]

I love my M44! Accuracy is very good, especially for a carbine. Mine's from 1946 so condition is very good.

Recoil is a bit stiff though for some. Its on par with shooting 12ga 2 3/4" buckshot or slugs... I'd imagine the 91/30 would be a bit less.

 

[dwr461]

I've been thinking about getting a Mosin Nagant to go with my SMLE and 98K. Would you be willing to part with a rifle for me too?

Dave

 

[XD45ACP]

Well, i mostly want one because its an inexpensive rifle to shoot and who doesn't want a gun that can put 145 grains through 3/4" of plate steel? I certainly do. I was also concerned about the "stick bolt" thing. I shot one that was horrible and almost made me change my mind...

If you want pm me the info on your rifles and I will prolly buy one.

Thanks for the great info

 

[my-rifle]

Almost all Mosin-Nagants have the sticky-bolt issue. The reasons are threefold. The main reason is that the surplus ammo that's available currently is steel-cased, and when fired the cases expand against the walls of the chamber. Brass contracts again into it's original shape (or close) while steel is less malleable, and so tends to remain stuck against the chamber walls.

The second reason the cases stick involves the machining process on these guns. Most were made in a hurry with the enemy within earshot of the factories, so the chambers weren't perfect. They're not visibly rough or anything, but most have a tiny burr or ridge somewhere on the chamber surface.

The third reason is because the cases are lacquer-coated, and thousands of lacquer-coated rounds going through them then having the rifle stored for 60 years has resulted in that lacquer residue in the chamber becoming almost like glue that gets sticky only when superheated by a 30,000 PSI explosion.

You can solve the last two problems using similar approaches. I take a nylon 12-gauge bristle brush and attach it to a 12" section of cleaning rod, then chuck it into my hand-drill. I soak it in brake-cleaner, then run it up into the chamber being careful to not engage the throat rifling. I then run the drill at low speed for about five to ten minutes dousing regularly with brake cleaner to clean out the lacquer glue.

You can generally tell if you have a burr by examining your spent cases. If they're steel and you have a burr you'll see the scratch on the case. If you have a burr, you can usually fix it by using the 12-gauge bore brush and wrapping it with 00000 steel wool or even better emory cloth taped at the overlap so that the overlap goes with the rotation not against it, then I soak with jeweler's rouge or Flitz (Ace Hardware) and run the brush into the chamber up to the burr and cycle at a low speed. Man, you do NOT want to go too fast here! Take off too much or create new roughness and you're in worse trouble than before. This will usually fix and chamber burrs.

Having said all this I've almost always solved the problem by using brass-cased ammo, and I think that usually works. The other two options are there though in the event that you need them.

If you REALLY REALLY don't want to encounter the problem, get a Finnish M39. They don't seem to encounter the issue at all. Th Finns just machined their barrels to a fare-thee-well.

I hope this helps somebody. I love shooting my Mosin-Nagants, and I suspect any other person would too.

 

[flamatrix99]

I have never had a sticky bolt issue with my 91/30. I use surplus steel cased brass washed corrosive ammo. I was told it is caused by cosmolyne. I made sure I cleaned the bolt and chammber really well and no problems at all.

 

[my-rifle]

I have never had a sticky bolt issue with my 91/30. I use surplus steel cased brass washed corrosive ammo. I was told it is caused by cosmolyne. I made sure I cleaned the bolt and chammber really well and no problems at all.

Can you recall the nationality of the ammo? I've heard folks say that some steel-cased ammo is better than others. Also of course different guns like different ammo.

 

[my-rifle]

Another gun I like to shoot (though ammo's dear as gold) are these

They're Hungarian M95 Stutzens from the first world war, and they fire rimmed ammo none of which is less than 60 years old and most of which is Nazi headstamped. They use a straight-pull bolt rather than the traditional turn-bolt, and they NEVER have the sticky-bolt problem either. Of course they kick like rented mules, but heck! Butt pads cost $15. I got 13 of them back when Century was selling them for $30 each. I just couldn't stop myself . It's that damned C&R! Who can resist 10 World War One battle rifles for $300??? One of the 13 has acceptance stamps that indicate it was made in 1915 by the Budapest arsenal, accepted into the Honved army, re-arsenalled in Vienna in 1934, then taken by the Germans during the Anschluss of the late 1930s, and used by them during the 2nd world war. That means it fought in three armies - probably against the Italians in the first war, then against the Russians or British and Americans during the second. What an amazing journey this rifle has taken to reach me!

I recommend them as well if you can find them - and find the ammo. Hornady sells it for $1 a round.

 

[sonanth]

http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/Russian_1891_30_7.62x54R_Mosin_Nagant_Rifle.html

http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/Czechoslavakian_vz._24_8mm_Mauser_Rifle.html

How about these? Is the ammo easy to find? Is there modern ammo that you can shoot through these? Sorry, I don't know much about older weapon systems.

 

[my-rifle]

The Czech VZ24s are about the best made Mausers ever produced. The really good Mauser actions are either pre-1930 German or else they're Czech or Swedish. The actions are like butter. The K98's aren't so good, and you see very few hunting rifles built onto K98 actions. The Czech actions though tend to end up in a lot of hunting rifles. When I saw your link I bought one immediately. Most of the ones I've seen have been in worn-out condition, so one in VG- Exc condition is worth $239 (hand-select and shipped to my door).

Steel-cased 8mm Romanian ammo can be bought for $0.30 per round from Aim. The Romanian stuff is good ammo too. I've put a few thousand through my Yugoslavian 24/47's

The Mosin-Nagants in the links you posted are good too. I already have a bunch, so I'm going to pass, but Aim has a very good reputation for selling exactly what they describe, and offering a good customer service policy. The ammo runs about $0.25 per round last time I checked.

For ammo visit http://gun-deals.com/

Squeky, the guy who runs the site is up and up.

http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/Russian_1891_30_7.62x54R_Mosin_Nagant_Rifle.html

http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/Czechoslavakian_vz._24_8mm_Mauser_Rifle.html

How about these? Is the ammo easy to find? Is there modern ammo that you can shoot through these? Sorry, I don't know much about older weapon systems.

 

[BayouDude]

My father picked up an M95 about 12yrs ago for less than $100 along with about 20 boxes of the Nazi marked ammo. Gun definitely kicks like a mule. Shot it once then picked it up. Many of these old rifles are great pieces of military history that can be had at a cheap price. I pulled the old Mosin Nagant out of the closet and did a little research for the hell of it. Turns out it is finish made at Tikka in 1927 and has the unstepped barrel serial 6666 out of 10k with the heavy bore C designation. Always thought the thing was Russian. Any idea what it would be worth to a collector?

 

[my-rifle]

My father picked up an M95 about 12yrs ago for less than $100 along with about 20 boxes of the Nazi marked ammo. Gun definitely kicks like a mule. Shot it once then picked it up. Many of these old rifles are great pieces of military history that can be had at a cheap price. I pulled the old Mosin Nagant out of the closet and did a little research for the hell of it. Turns out it is finish made at Tikka in 1927 and has the unstepped barrel serial 6666 out of 10k with the heavy bore C designation. Always thought the thing was Russian. Any idea what it would be worth to a collector?

Are you talking about an M91? To the best of my knowledge the Mannlicher M95 is an Austro-Hungarian rifle chambered in 8x50r or 8x56r depending upon whether it was rechambered in Vienna in the re-arsenal program that took place in 1934.

The M91 is the older Mosin Nagant design. Since the Finns captured butt-loads of them from the Russians before the model was re-designed in 1930, that's the model most frequently found in the Finnish arsenal. The Finns being the Finns, they rebuilt most of the captured rifles to get very tight headspace, and they put match-grade barrels on them. While they're fine rifles they generally go for about $250 on the surplus market.

 

[WILDCATT]

ammo

I belive GRAFs has new russian ammo made in serbia by privi partizian.seem you all should get reloading equipment and cast your bullets.surplus is almost gone.and there won't be any more.I dont have a mosin but several others.
some give one inch groups at 100 yrds.I am working on 308 and 30/06 for my two garands.and then on 8 mm for my FN 49.all with lead bullets.