What the hell?

[penguin]

Old abstracts in no way make the evidence any more refutable. It just means that this has been established 15 years ago, yet people still try to state the opposite as fact.

Yes, it does. Research changes over time. So what you are saying is that asbestos does not cause cancer? What about DDT? That's healthy to so go ahead and cover your garden with large amounts of it. New studies impact old ones day in and day out. To say that old abstracts done on studies that are 15-20 years old are the best evidence out there is bad info. Ask pain-main.

Hey, Pain-main. Do you ascribe to all the old med journals out there and old AMA data when there is new data?

Now, I'm not saying that all old data is bad data - but I'm pretty certain that if you wanted to make your argument better you need to look at newer research.

 

[Dave328]

Yes, it does. Research changes over time. So what you are saying is that asbestos does not cause cancer? What about DDT? That's healthy to so go ahead and cover your garden with large amounts of it. New studies impact old ones day in and day out. To say that old abstracts done on studies that are 15-20 years old are the best evidence out there is bad info. Ask pain-main.

Hey, Pain-main. Do you ascribe to all the old med journals out there and old AMA data when there is new data?

Now, I'm not saying that all old data is bad data - but I'm pretty certain that if you wanted to make your argument better you need to look at newer research.

Apples and Oranges.
These studies are hardly comparable to medical research. Hell, when my brother died from Leukemia in '91 at 16, there weren't half the drugs that are now considered normal protocol. Things do change, but I highly doubt that the planet just all of a sudden stopped seeping oil into the oceans. Should they go out and spend money for research to find out that, "yep there's still oil seeping up from the ocean floor". I'd much rather see my tax dollars spent on something useful, like drilling in AK and building refineries. How about we build a refinery in place of every housing project! Win-Win!

 

[penguin]

Apples and Oranges.
These studies are hardly comparable to medical research.

I'm not sure what you even mean by that. It's called the scientific method. By your answer above, I'm not sure if you know what that means.

Hell, when my brother died from Leukemia in '91 at 16, there weren't half the drugs that are now considered normal protocol.

And those drugs were borne from what? Professionals using the scientific method to discover and create new drugs.

Things do change, but I highly doubt that the planet just all of a sudden stopped seeping oil into the oceans.

No one said that it did. But the rate of seepage and the rate of manmade spills change. To try and say they don't would be akin to saying that the diesel fuel today emits the same pollutants as it did 20 years ago.

Should they go out and spend money for research to find out that, "yep there's still oil seeping up from the ocean floor". I'd much rather see my tax dollars spent on something useful, like drilling in AK and building refineries.

Yeah, why do research. The research from 20 years ago is fine for another 20 years. That makes perfect sense... I guess the gentlemen that performed the research that you are lauding should have just used the research that they had 20 years prior to them starting theirs. I mean, why waste money. I'm pretty much done with this discussion as I've made my points.

 

[CEHollier]

All I can say is we need to start drilling now. Responsibly and create a comprehensive energy policy. Any of you guys got a good Bald Eagle recipee. I need to cook the one we got in the freezer before it gets freezer burn.

 

[penguin]

I was on Deer Island in MS a couple weeks ago and almost got attacked by one!

 

[Dave328]

All I can say is we need to start drilling now. Responsibly and create a comprehensive energy policy. Any of you guys got a good Bald Eagle recipee. I need to cook the one we got in the freezer before it gets freezer burn.

I'm thinking a TurDuckEnGle.

 

[penguin]

I'm kind of partial to PanBabyseEagle (Eagle inside a baby seal inside a Panda). Awesome with some hot sauce!

 

[CEHollier]

Fried rattlesnake. Yum We went to the Freer Texas rattlesnake roundup and got to pick out the snake we wanted to eat.

 

[CajunTim]

I cant wait to make it here
http://www.auduboninstitute.org/site/PageServer
And try some of their creatures.

 

[penguin]

Fried rattlesnake. Yum We went to the Freer Texas rattlesnake roundup and got to pick out the snake we wanted to eat.

They used to have a place in Corpus Christi that did the same thing.

CajunTim; I love explaining to people that our aquarium has an area that the fish labels also include recipes!

 

[CEHollier]

Penguin,

Found a link for you to check out. I know the oil companies can explore without having a negative impact on the environment if they are regulated.

http://www.lacoast.gov/watermarks/1998c-fall/1impact/

 

[penguin]

I only talk about eating endangered animals in this thread from now on. I've said my peace.

 

[scubasteve]

Penguin, I understand where you are coming from. The education and time you have invested in your career is admirable. I just wish you had taken it in another direction.
Concerning the Valdez incident, the fishermen were well compensated for their losses and not 2 years after the incident, the area recorded a record fishing season. Valdez could have been avoided. There is plenty of blame to go around, but a lot was learned by the entities that looked for the cause and not the blame.
I've been involved with the maritime / petrochemical industry since 1987. The changes that came about April 1st, 1993 were for the greater good of all.
I find it hard to believe when you state that nobody wants to be involved in remediation in Alaska. Companies go where the money is and I'm plenty sure the money is good in Alaska.
Concerning DDT............Bring it on. When USED PROPERLY, DDT works. Seems some municipalities were overusing the stuff and caused plenty of problems. Yea, lets go ahead and dump it upstream and let it run on down to kill the skeeters. DURRRRRRRRR!!!!!
E&P can be done safely and cleanly. It's proven everday.

 

[penguin]

Penguin, I understand where you are coming from. The education and time you have invested in your career is admirable. I just wish you had taken it in another direction.

Hey, I'm happy with the direction I've taken my career. I make good money, travel locally so I'm not stuck in an office and get to work from home alot (and will be all the time once our office lease is up).

 

[W1nds0rF0x]

I'm voting democrat so I can pull my own teeth in 5 years when the government run healthcare system runs out of money.

I'm voting democrat because I feel that removing rights of the individual for the betterment of the majority is the right thing to do.

I'm voting democrat because I just can't find enough to do with all of that extra money on my paycheck, so I will ask Obama what to do with it.

I'm voting democrat because I would rather our country give in to terrorist threats and make the next republican president deal with the problem.

I'm voting democrat because I want to rely on the police and military to keep me safe, the government never does anything wrong. They make millions of dollars off of our paychecks, so why would they lie to us?

I am voting democrat because saving polar bears is much more important than lowering fuel prices.

and finally, I'm voting democrat because I only believe in some of the constitution. Don't tread on my free speech, my right to vote or my right to a speedy trial, but render these rights useless by taking away my firearms.


Hmm... see, I can do that too! lol

I will second your comment... what the hell?!

So, have you put that on a video and upped it as a video reply???

 

[CajunTim]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080616/ap_on_el_pr/mccain
The current drilling moratorium is a perennial cause for controversy, pitting those who favor additional exploration on the one hand against environmentalists on the other.

 

[W1nds0rF0x]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080616/ap_on_el_pr/mccain
The current drilling moratorium is a perennial cause for controversy, pitting those who favor additional exploration on the one hand against environmentalists on the other.

Something those 'environmentalists' should understand is, those that oppose them are armed.

 

[SimonJester308]

Something those 'environmentalists' should understand is, those that oppose them are armed.

Some of us 'environmentalists' are also armed. Some of us have even made sure we have extra weapons for our fellow Granola Commandos

 

[JadeRaven]

That's because the only way to alleviate the problem would be to institute a better health care system that can help more people for less. Seems to work in the rest of the industrialized world...

Yeah. Go up to Canada and get in line to get you an MRI. Get in line to see the dentist. Get in line to get that heart bypass surgery, it can wait nine months.

The drilling wouldn't have an effect on the U.S. fuel prices for 3-5 due to site surveys, environmental impact studies and construction of facilities. You don't want environmental impact studies? Look at the environment now after Valdes in '89. The fishing community is still devastated. Don't worry, that could never happen again. And if it did, it wouldn't at all effect the fish stock from Alaska that makes up 60% of the U.S commercial fish stock (I <3 the discovery channel)

Who cares if we have to wait? We haven't built any oil refineries in this country since the nineteen seventies, and all of our prime new prospects for domestic oil drilling have been constantly blocked year after year. I guess since drilling for new oil would take three to five years to hit the market, it's just not worth it to drill for any new oil ever. It's not like the world's demand for petrouleum is rising.

Oh yeah, and all the environmental impact studies would have told that "if a captain screwes up and puts his tanker on a reef that bad things will happen." I guess since accidents occur, we should really stop shipping oil altogether. Perhaps we should stop putting things in motion that could possibly be compromised by gross negligence of licensed and trained individuals. An end to global commerce would be the best option.

Most estimates are between 3 and 5 years before a drop of oil would be refined. So, if there is an oil spill in the rugges Alaskan waters (where the fishing there gives us 60% of our fish stock), who would clean it? They don't even know HOW to do that. All it would take is an iceburg slicing the side of a tanker and that area is done. But who cares about that. Oh wait, liberals do. We also care about having clean air, clean water and a clean environment as a whole. If you think that nothing bad could happen, look at China's environmental policies. They don't care.

Since when is conservation only a liberal idea? Conservatives have done more to protect the environment throughout history than liberals ever have, even when it went against the popular opinion. Just the work of Teddy Roosevelt alone outweighs most anything done by the democrats. It was Richard Nixon who created the Environmental Protection Agency. Your average liberal would have us all believe that Republicans would burn down the entire countryside in the name of capitalism. It's only a recent phenomena that the liberals have picked up environmentalism as their banner. Conservation is a core component of Conservative values. The only real difference between the GOP and the democrats in the environmental category is that the Republicans don't put woodpeckers ahead of human lives.