What Zero Distance for Your AR & Why?

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  • Paul Gomez

    www.Gomez-Training.com
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    Mar 23, 2008
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    OK, opinions are like assholes, etc, etc...but I'd really like to get some perspectives on zeroing the AR/M4 platform.

    The US Army has traditionally gone with a 250M zero on the M16A1 and a 300M zero on the M16A2 and M4.

    The 250M zero on the M16A1 [achieved by using the L aperture and sighting dead-on at 25M] has the bullet crossing line of sight at 25 meters, reaches a maximum ordinate of about 11 inches at 225 meters, and crosses line of sight again at 375 meters. When the unmarked aperture is flipped up, you have a 42M initial intersection, a 5 inch maximum ordinate at 175M, and a second intersection at 250M.

    The 300M zero on the M16A2, you wind up with a maximum ordinate of approx 6 inches at 175M. It's just shy of 4.5 inches high at 100M.
    When using an M4, maximum ordinate jumps to just over 7 and at 100M, around 5.3.

    When you look at a 50M/200M zero, out of an actual M4, you have a maximum ordinate of approx 2.10 at 125.

    My thought on zero distance is that the acceptable group size doesn't change based on range to threat. In other words, the same 'fist sized group, in appropriate location on threat, as quickly as I can place it' still applies.
    To that end, I am willing to accept a 6", plus or minus, area of impact. That means that Maximum Point Blank Range is defined as the point where the projectile is no greater than 3 inches above or below our Point of Aim.

    To that end, both the 50M and the 100M zero are acceptable.


    A lot of dialed in guys recommend a 100yd or meter zero and I've heard several different explanations for it. Paul Howe likes it because it forces guys to get used to shooting at a greater distance. However, if you read his article on this, he actually prefers the gun to print three inches high at 100yds. That's not exactly a 100yd zero as the term is commonly used.

    Another reason given, is that there is less variation from muzzle to 100yd/m when using the 100yd/m zero. In other words, the bullet will impact at slightly less than POA at all points prior to 100 whereas with a 50M zero you have both lower and higher POI within the first 100M.

    Of course, if you are using an optic, particularly something with a BDC, the 100 distance has more going in its favor.

    Here's some data from a friend showing 50yd and 100yd info for XM193 55grFMJ from a 16-inch M4.

    100 yard zero for xm193 from 16" bbl (55gr at 3050fps) at 75 deg F, distances in yards not meters

    Range Impact
    0 -2.5
    25 -1.49
    50 -0.73
    75 -0.23
    100 0
    125 -0.07
    150 -0.44
    175 -1.14
    200 -2.19
    225 -3.59
    250 -5.39
    275 -7.59
    300 -10.22
    325 -13.31
    350 -16.89
    375 -20.97
    400 -25.61

    50 yard zero, same ammo and conditions

    Range Impact
    0 -2.5
    25 -1.13
    50 0
    75 0.86
    100 1.46
    125 1.75
    150 1.75
    175 1.41
    200 0.72
    225 -0.31
    250 -1.75
    275 -3.58
    300 -5.85
    325 -8.57
    350 -11.79
    375 -15.52
    400 -19.79

    Regardless of the zero you choose, you absolutely must shoot the gun at range and verify how it prints. And everyone gains by extending the range and practicing with a less forgiving target.
     

    Narco

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    I personally go with the 50/200 due the wide variety 3 gun matches you shoot in... Just a little hold or knowing your optic, will allow for a more precise shot out to 300 and 400 only 14 inches between. And it keeps you within 4 inches all the way out to just under 300. Whereas 100 zero it is more than double the drop..
     

    BOSS302

    Pain is temporary
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    Apr 2, 2008
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    50/200 here

    If I've got to reach out and touch something beyond 200m I'm going with something larger, and in today's urban environments the chances of you having to shoot at someone that is farther than 200m away is very remote.
     

    tactical723

    3 Gun / F Class Player
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    Paul, I did use the 50/200 zero for my steel and optic setups on all my AR's, however, I recently scoped my competition JP rifle with the new Leupold Mark AR 3X9 mildot, which requires a 100 yd zero for their turret system to work
     

    dzelenka

    D.R. 1827; HM; P100x3
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    200 yards with all of my ARs. The open sighted rifles, I use a 200 yd basic zero, but I know How much elevation (and windage) is required to put a bullet on target out to 600 yards. The little wheel on the A2 works wonders for that. For my carbine with Aimpoint, 200 yards works quite well and I doubt I would be using that rifle any farther than that.

    I would recommend that you zero your open sights at the chosen distance and then mark both elevation and windage with paint. That way, if you do adjust them for distance or wind, you can go back to zero very easily. Also it is a way to quickly confirm that your rifle is on its zero. Anyone who shoots a rifle with parts that can become loose e.g. the gas plug on an M1 or M1A should tighten the part to the appropriate point and then paint a reference line on it. This is a very quick reference to see if the part is still tight. If your gas plug comes loose on one of these rifles, accuracy will go to hell very quickly.

    Dan
     

    mike308

    HandiChamp
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    You have to get some sort of zero so that you can adjust the rear sight for any situation. I have a 200 yard zero as I shoot High Power. But I have enough elevation that I can get down to 100 yards without running out of elevation adjustments.

    As far a 50 yards that's fairly mute point. So If you aim an eye you hit the nose!

    Having your zero and knowing what it takes to get to the other ranges is whats important. You need to know what it takes to go from 100 yards to 300 and then 600yards without thinking.

    Come up 3 minutes on rear and set front sight for 100 yards. From there you can easily get the rest. 1 minute to 200. 3 to 300 and 12 to 600 or something close to that depending on your sight picture use at different ranges.
     

    Nolacopusmc

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    Does anyone use a 75 yard zero?

    I am running a 50/200 on all my carbines.

    In the USMC, we ran a 36/300, but that was on an A2 and was for a different purpose and mission.
     
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    dzelenka

    D.R. 1827; HM; P100x3
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    Does anyone use a 75 yard zero?

    I am running a 50/200 on all my carbines.

    In the USMC, we ran a 36/300, but that was on an A2 and was for a different purpose and mission.

    Just looking at the chart that Paul posted, a 75 yard zero would @ 1/4" lower point of impact per 25 yards for all yard lines (@1 MOA). It wouldn't really affect shooting from 50 to 200 yards in practical terms, but would make 300 more difficult 12" rather than 9" drop and would make the 0 to 25 yard shots even more below the point of aim.
     

    Nolacopusmc

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    Especially if one is "running" (new euphemism for "using":rolleyes: ?) an optic on top of an A1/A2 carrying handle.

    All of those tables I've seen are predicated on a sight line two inches above the bore. An optic mounted on a carrying handle is more like 3.5/4 inches above the bore line.

    This is one reason why I use a 50 yard zero. The close-in displacement is not so pronounced... and odds are you will not remember to "hold under" while trying to take a shot at an adversary close enough to see you sweating...

    .

    Actually anyone who is using the euphemism "running :rolleyes:" has probably stepped far enough out of the stone age to not be "running" an optic on a carrying handle.

    Unless of course they are basing their training on 1970's standards.
     
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    dzelenka

    D.R. 1827; HM; P100x3
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    My calculation for a 200 yd zero using 75 gr Hornady bullets at 2600 fps (16" barrel) with a sight height at 2.5" is +.4" at 50 yds. 25 yd POI would be -.9". WIth the sight height raised to 3.5", you are at -1.8" at 25 yds and -.4" at 50.
     

    dzelenka

    D.R. 1827; HM; P100x3
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    When shooting gets fast and exciting, you forget those nice little hold under/hold over thoughts that you used at the range. That is why I keep my deer rifles sighted for 200 yards. If the animal is at a longer distance, I usually have time to think. If he jumps up at close range, POA is pretty close to POI. If that is stressful and makes people prone to screw up, just think how it would be if you target has a gun and/or a hostage, maybe someone you care about.
     

    Nolacopusmc

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    When shooting gets fast and exciting, you forget those nice little hold under/hold over thoughts that you used at the range. That is why I keep my deer rifles sighted for 200 yards. If the animal is at a longer distance, I usually have time to think. If he jumps up at close range, POA is pretty close to POI. If that is stressful and makes people prone to screw up, just think how it would be if you target has a gun and/or a hostage, maybe someone you care about.

    So would it be a fair statement to say that generally the further out your zero is, the less hold over you have up close?
     

    dzelenka

    D.R. 1827; HM; P100x3
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    Yes and no. Remember that the bullet crosses the line of sight twice. The further away it crosses the line of sight the second time, the closer it will cross the line of sight the first time. What yo want to find is the best compromise. With an AR, because the sights sit so far above the barrel, the closer the bullet crosses the first time, the more severe your issues will be at the highest point (mid range) of the bullet's trajectory. The best thing to do to learn about these relationships is to find a ballistic calculator on the web and play with the variables. It will give you a feel for the theoretical ballistics. of a given gun load combination.

    I hope that provided some insight.
     

    Nolacopusmc

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    Yes and no. Remember that the bullet crosses the line of sight twice. The further away it crosses the line of sight the second time, the closer it will cross the line of sight the first time. What yo want to find is the best compromise. With an AR, because the sights sit so far above the barrel, the closer the bullet crosses the first time, the more severe your issues will be at the highest point (mid range) of the bullet's trajectory. The best thing to do to learn about these relationships is to find a ballistic calculator on the web and play with the variables. It will give you a feel for the theoretical ballistics. of a given gun load combination.

    I hope that provided some insight.

    Gotcha
     

    Bam Bam

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    The best thing to do to learn about these relationships is to find a ballistic calculator on the web and play with the variables. It will give you a feel for the theoretical ballistics. of a given gun load combination.

    What ballistic calculator software do you recommend?? I have a flat top, which you saw, so with the scope centerline closer to the bore centerline the variance
    should be closer than a standard AR carry handle correct? And for these given ranges the heavier grain projectiles the better (to a point) I presume?



    Bam Bam
     

    Nolacopusmc

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    Why are you so defensive? Spanky makes a comment on ammo count in a class... and you write a book on justifying your Magpul boys, along with some drivel about needing five or six rounds, etc. Now this.

    My comment was NOT aimed at you specifically... the "running" thing has annoyed me (and I couldn't tell you why; it just does) for a long time. But it sure pricked your thin skin, didn't it? One wonders why...

    Tell you what, buck... if it makes you feel better about yourself to think that you are more "highly trained" than those of us who worked in the stone age, then more power to you.

    .

    LOL. Seems like your skin got a little more pricked than mine. :mamoru:
     
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