444 Marlin or 45/70 or 35 Whelen

[toddrod]

It appears I will be off the entire week of primitive arms this year and I do not have a rifle for it (just gearing up). Which caliber, and which rifle do you prefer it in? What ever I get I will be hand loading, and probably hand casting for it.

A forum member told me about the 35 Whelen also being legal so lets add that to the discussion.

 

[themcfarland]

Todd, The reason I chose 444 over 45 70, is I can load up or down, the 444 has pills that work at slower speeds, where the 70 cant get down to. You can load up to 70 speeds and powers or close if you need to as well. plus, Im a wimp and the 70 just hurts.

 

[Bam Bam]

The 444 is superior to the 45/70 in velocity, energy and ballistics IMHO. I have a 444 lever action to use in the brush since small limbs and brush don't seem to affect it much. I don't think either have too much recoil myself but that's just me.

 

[Laid Back]

444. And I have a 45-70. The only reason I keep my 45-70 is because it is way more accurate than my hunting buddy's 444. I've also had trouble tracking deer with the hornady cartridges. Very little blood trails in my case. Get the 444.

 

[Jmfox3]

I have shot the 444 and own a 45-70. They are both good guns with the difference in ballistics very marginal...as I am perusing my reloading manual. I also reload and both cases go up and down well. Both are popular with reloaders for to their "versatility." Both guns are commonly used for bear hunting and for bear protection for their knock down power. I've never heard of or experienced tracking problems with Hornady cartridges. We're talking about 300 to 325 gr of well designed hunting bullets moving between 1800 and 2100 FPS for both the 444 and 45-70. Obviously the lower speed loads will have less recoil. The cavity left by the bullet is quite large in comparison to a traditional rifle. The 45-70 bullet and cartridges are just a bit easier to find at the store than the 444s. Both guns can be extremely accurate out to 125 yards but start dropping rapidly past that distance. A 200 yard shot can be consistently made but you need to practice...practice...practice. In any event, good luck with your choice and good luck hunting. You can't go wrong with either gun.

 

[CLC]

It depends.

If I were worried about being able to find rounds in the store I'd go with the 45-70.
But since you're reloading, I'd go with the 444.

Great round IMO

 

[gmshooter]

444 hands down!! Or if your shots are within 125 yds. .44 magnum

 

[toddrod]

James, the way I shot my rifles today I do not see myself shooting much over 150.

 

[Geauxfish]

I can second the .44 mag for shots under 125 yards. But, of the 3 you listed, I would probably go with the 35 Whelan.

 

[highstandard40]

I went with a 35 Remington. An added benefit for me is that it works great with cast bullets and has less recoil than 444, 45-70, or 35 Whelen. The problem may be is that approved rifles in 35 Remington are a little hard to find.

 

[Gus McCrae]

Todd, The reason I chose 444 over 45 70, is I can load up or down, the 444 has pills that work at slower speeds, where the 70 cant get down to. You can load up to 70 speeds and powers or close if you need to as well. plus, Im a wimp and the 70 just hurts.

They have load data with .45-70 going down to 1100 FPS with 12 grains Unique and a 300 grain hard cast bullet. That would be way easy on the shoulders and still blow a hole clean through a whitetail or an elk within 100 yards.


IMO, the .45-70 can be loaded really low or really high, it's very versatile and to be honest, ballistics don't really matter between these calibers until you start reaching out to 400 yards... then, I'd say .35 Whelen.

The .35 Remingtons are nice if you can find one, they are about like a .30-30, but with a bigger bullet (you need .35 cal to be legal for primitive weapon).

If most of my shots were within 100 yards, I'd also look at the .44 Mag or maybe the .357 Mag.

 

[HAMP]

Try and find an older speer #12 reloading manual ,their are three sections about the 45-70 and only one for the 444, to me that says alot, as far as 35 whelen i have no experience with it, as for the other ive shot them both and think both will do the trick when used right.

 

[gmshooter]

I will have to look. I had one dist. That had the handi rifle with the .444 and .35 remington barrels


James Louque
Louques Firearms LLC
225-206-1908

 

[ShooT_SpoTs]

.444 marlin - knock down power and not the heavy recoil compared to the .45-70

 

[tbone]

I've only shot the .35 Whelen and killed one deer. On an invite duck hunt and was pressed into service for a deer killing. And I killed that deer at about 5 yds. from the tree I was in. So, I don't know what the effectiveness of that caliber really would be. It was a H&R handy rifle single-shot with an inexpensive scope mounted aboard.
From what I understand, the .35 W is similar to a 30.06 ballistically with a larger diameter projectile. Perfect for a "primitive arms" season.
I assume that soon Louisiana will follow Mississippi's lead and allow any weapon as long as you buy the "muzzleloader" license.
I still normally hunt with my Thompson Center Renegade percussion blackpowder in .54 caliber.

 

[Redd508]

444 vs 45/70 is really a toss up for white tails in LA. It will really come down to your personal bias whatever that may be. I'd also plug the 44 mag. It'll do anything you need on deer at the range you stated with less powder than the other 2.

ETA: I personally prefer the 45/70 for the 4 and 500 gr bullets you can cast for it. 444 is more limited. That said its hard to justify a 500 gr slug to make meat around here.

 

[peak98]

I've owned H&R's in 444 Marlin and 45-70. I still own a 35 Whelen and have two 357's both of which have been reamed to 357 Maximum. I would not hesitate to shoot a deer at 300y with the Whelen. It's a helluva a deer killer that I liked more than the 444 or the 45-70, but that's just my opinion. If I was shooting 150 yards and in only, I'd pick the 357 Max without question. Its a very mild recoiling round that's very accurate. Both of mine like Hornady 180 XTP's and 180gr SSP's over Winchester 296. If you're handloading, the possibilities are endless! Here is a pic that shows the difference between the 357 mag and 357 Maximum. I've killed deer out to 197yds with the Whelen and 135yds with the 357 Max. I'd suggest really taking a look at the 357 Max if your shoots will be 150yds and in and you intend to roll your own ammunition. It's easy on the shoulder, the pocket book, and kills'em just as dead.

 

[hunter5567]

Bud's Guns might still have the 35 Remington/444 camo combos.
I have one in the 35 Remington and it shoots great and you can load it hotter than what you can shoot in the lever action and much hotter than the factory loads. The factory loads are plenty powerful enough with a lot less recoil than the 35 Whelen. The 35 Whelen is a longer range cartridge which should be good out to 3-400 yards.
It's actually a great bear rifle especially with 250gr bullets and is a ballistic twin to the 350 Remington Magnum.
If you handload the 357 Maximum is a great cartridge as well but factory loads are a little less scarcer than hen's teeth. You can actually load the 357 Magnum close to its performance by seating the bullet out in the case since the Handi rifles have a long throat to begin with without reaming to the Max.

 

[jvr]

if you are going to reload i would recommend the 444. there are many bullet types you can use. I do find the revolution pointed bullets to be a big step up in accuracy. If you are casting you should be able to find a mold that uses gas checks for 44 mag bullet. that cuts down on the lead fouling. If you shoot 44 mag the bullets can be loaded in either cartridge. as for the 35 rem; straight wall cases are much easier to reload. no experience with the 45/70.

 

[sandman7925]

I assume that soon Louisiana will follow Mississippi's lead and allow any weapon as long as you buy the "muzzleloader" license.
I still normally hunt with my Thompson Center Renegade percussion blackpowder in .54 caliber.

What do you mean by any weapon?