Another unarmed black man shot...

[PPBart]

This one in South Carolina, with video that pretty clearly shows what happened. Judges/juries/most public have historically given more credence to the cop's side of the story -- but one has to wonder how much evidence of cops lying about what happened will it take to change that?

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime...r-shooting-man-during-traffic-stop/ar-AAayMPl

 

[Barry J]

There is video of the cop shooting the guy in the back eight times as he ran away. Then he lied on the report about giving cpr. He needs to get fitted for his orange jumpsuit. Overall confidence in the police is being eroded away.

 

[dougstump]

It was on the news that the cop is being charged with murder & has been denied bond.

 

[TerryK]

The video shows very little, just a shooting at the end not what led up to it. Not sure but I think fighting with a police officer makes you a felon . Going to get hard to find qualified people to be in law enforcement if they criticize you based on a 50 second video .

 

[Barry J]

You can only shoot a fleeing felon if you believe he is a threat to others. He didn't look like a threat to others. He was trying to get away. During my career, I had to fight with a few people. None of them were trying to hurt me, just get away. Didn't shoot any of them. Had a deputy with me on a dwi stop one night. When I told the guy he was under arrest, he ran. Didn't hit anybody, just ran. The deputy pulled his gun. Scared me. Made the deputy holster before I chased him. Didn't want to get shot.

 

[JayKay]

The video shows very little, just a shooting at the end not what led up to it.

Yep, it was reported as being a traffic stop for a burned out light, yet there's no car nearby. You can also see the taser wires stretched out before the shooting starts. There's definitely more to the story than what's shown in the video.

 

[ajridgedell]

I say "Kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out!" but what do I know? HA HA just kid

 

[Barry J]

There's definitely more to the story than what's shown in the video.

Always is. But how do you believe anything the cop has to say after lying on the report about cpr?

 

[kingfhb]

You can argue that if he attempted to harm the officer he committed a felony (though you'd think he would have the right to be convicted of such a crime in court FIRST... I know, ridiculous right?), thereby the officer could be justified in the shooting. Who makes that Judge/Jury call on the spot? However, if he was simply attempting to escape, and the officer could not prevent the escape by restraining the suspect, shooting the fleeing suspect is not a valid (or legal) option.

Where's his M26 or X26? He could have dropped him before he got 10 feet. Now also consider the frame of mind... during a stress event, the officers "muscle memory" would initially cause him to draw or at least reach for his sidearm (or would it if it were just someone running away?)... even mentally and physically bring it up and fire while believing he was using his Taser product.

Anyway, the guy didn't SEEM o pose a threat... he was fleeing on foot, not in a vehicle nearly running down a pedestrian... he didn't have a weapon (or so it would again, SEEM... not sure if one was recovered)... So this was SEEMINGLY a case of excessive force and the end of a career. I think the departments need to step up the psyc evaluations of officers on a regular basis. The "God" or "General" complex that sometimes is developed by individuals in a role of authority can be overwhelming to an officer and take control of his demeanor and attitude. Some even develop an "untouchable" comfort, thinking that the system can either be manipulated in their favor or the know all the right people. Some just get complacent and think "I'll never do that" or "That will never happen to me"... or take it a step further by thinking "No criminal will be able to escape once I have them in my grasp!"... then when they do, its damaging to the officers mental state and they snap, reaching for the only form of authority of control they have left... their weapon. It's about training and training and then training again.

The majority of law enforcement officers in the United States do not receive anywhere near the level of training or continued training that they should in my opinion... weather it be due to budgeting restrictions, health reasons (including weight), age restrictions, etc. This isn't the old west anymore where the sheriff of Cooterville is the sole authority in a town where everyone and anyone could have a gun on their side and the residents are generally in support of the law. Those days are gone... departments should be given increased budgets for additional psyc training and evaluations, weapons training, situational awareness, self control, etc.

The need is there. Most officers are generally good people... but the stress and power of that badge is tough.

This guy definitely needs some jail time.

 

[dwr461]

I'm going to choose to not have opinion until I know more about what happened.



The part I wanted on which to comment was how little actual energy a handgun bullets carries. Real shootings are nothing like Hollywood. You couldn't even tell if the subject was hit or not in the video. No blood spraying, body jumping, dropping to your knees and reaching upwards for heaven screaming afterwards.

Far too many people have learned handgun physics from watching Hollywood.

Davd


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[Barry J]

I agree with everything but the first sentence. If he is in the process of attempting to harm the officer, the officer has the right to shoot him. Even if he attempted to harm the officer and is now in the process or running away, he has to pose an immediate threat to someone for the officer has the right to shoot him. The guy was running away and did not pose a threat to the officer. He was not armed and did not appear to be a threat to anyone else. And while I was typing this, it came on the news again. They played the radio conversation. The officer stated that he shot him in the chest and thigh.

 

[MOTOR51]

You can argue that if he attempted to harm the officer he committed a felony (though you'd think he would have the right to be convicted of such a crime in court FIRST... I know, ridiculous right?), thereby the officer could be justified in the shooting. Who makes that Judge/Jury call on the spot? However, if he was simply attempting to escape, and the officer could not prevent the escape by restraining the suspect, shooting the fleeing suspect is not a valid (or legal) option.

Where's his M26 or X26? He could have dropped him before he got 10 feet. Now also consider the frame of mind... during a stress event, the officers "muscle memory" would initially cause him to draw or at least reach for his sidearm (or would it if it were just someone running away?)... even mentally and physically bring it up and fire while believing he was using his Taser product.

Anyway, the guy didn't SEEM o pose a threat... he was fleeing on foot, not in a vehicle nearly running down a pedestrian... he didn't have a weapon (or so it would again, SEEM... not sure if one was recovered)... So this was SEEMINGLY a case of excessive force and the end of a career. I think the departments need to step up the psyc evaluations of officers on a regular basis. The "God" or "General" complex that sometimes is developed by individuals in a role of authority can be overwhelming to an officer and take control of his demeanor and attitude. Some even develop an "untouchable" comfort, thinking that the system can either be manipulated in their favor or the know all the right people. Some just get complacent and think "I'll never do that" or "That will never happen to me"... or take it a step further by thinking "No criminal will be able to escape once I have them in my grasp!"... then when they do, its damaging to the officers mental state and they snap, reaching for the only form of authority of control they have left... their weapon. It's about training and training and then training again.

The majority of law enforcement officers in the United States do not receive anywhere near the level of training or continued training that they should in my opinion... weather it be due to budgeting restrictions, health reasons (including weight), age restrictions, etc. This isn't the old west anymore where the sheriff of Cooterville is the sole authority in a town where everyone and anyone could have a gun on their side and the residents are generally in support of the law. Those days are gone... departments should be given increased budgets for additional psyc training and evaluations, weapons training, situational awareness, self control, etc.

The need is there. Most officers are generally good people... but the stress and power of that badge is tough.

This guy definitely needs some jail time.

Why do you continue to type things you know nothing about? The taser was clearly deployed and can be seen on video, hitting a LEO in itself is not a felony, and your attempts at taking jabs at LE with the abuse of power, psych evaluations etc is getting really old. A quick look back at your previous post might cause one to believe you are paranoid and might need a psych evaluation.

From what I can see in the video the officer screwed up and is gonna pay for it. Unless something magical shows up he is screwed and rightly so.


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[dougstump]

Far too many people have learned handgun physics from watching Hollywood.

What, you mean those 48 shot revolvers don't really exist! That must be why I've never seen one for sale at a gunshow.

But seriously, as a citizen I cannot shoot if the bad guy is disengaging and presents no immediate threat to myself or someone else. Then why should cops be allowed to shoot people in the back?

 

[sliguns]

There is video of the cop shooting the guy in the back eight times as he ran away. Then he lied on the report about giving cpr. He needs to get fitted for his orange jumpsuit. Overall confidence in the police is being eroded away.

Always is. But how do you believe anything the cop has to say after lying on the report about cpr?

This is very concerning to me. People lie all the time and when it is the one's with authority/power it's scary (honestly, it's scary no matter what tho). We've all likely experienced a situation where we had the chance to lie to save ourselves grief, but its just much more disappointing when you see it from the people who are enforcers of law. I mean if there was no video available, how different would the yet to be determined outcome be?

 

[sandman7925]

What, you mean those 48 shot revolvers don't really exist! That must be why I've never seen one for sale at a gunshow.

But seriously, as a citizen I cannot shoot if the bad guy is disengaging and presents no immediate threat to myself or someone else. Then why should cops be allowed to shoot people in the back?

Not that I'm taking up for the cop in this shooting as of now but would it make a difference to you if the unarmed man running away was wanted for murder, rape, or molestation. There are circumstances I believe where if the disengaging suspect poses a public threat by getting away then by all means shoot them in back.

 

[dougstump]

Not that I'm taking up for the cop in this shooting as of now but would it make a difference to you if the unarmed man running away was wanted for murder, rape, or molestation. There are circumstances I believe where if the disengaging suspect poses a public threat by getting away then by all means shoot them in back.

So just because he/she is suspected, not convicted of a crime, you are willing to allow the cops to be judge, jury, and executioner on the spot. I don’t think we want to give them that kind of power in our society.

Too many cops have the Wolf mentality, *He’s not going to get away, and I’m going to get him no matter what.* I know a cop that wrecked four cars (his patrol car plus three citizens cars) apprehending a suspect that stole a $15 (retail) shirt from Dillard’s. He continued the high speed pursuit through two cities and several school zones for a stolen shirt. Just a bit excessive in my opinion.

 

[MOTOR51]

So just because he/she is suspected, not convicted of a crime, you are willing to allow the cops to be judge, jury, and executioner on the spot. I don’t think we want to give them that kind of power in our society.

Too many cops have the Wolf mentality, *He’s not going to get away, and I’m going to get him no matter what.* I know a cop that wrecked four cars (his patrol car plus three citizens cars) apprehending a suspect that stole a $15 (retail) shirt from Dillard’s. He continued the high speed pursuit through two cities and several school zones for a stolen shirt. Just a bit excessive in my opinion.

Lol


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[MOTOR51]

Not that I'm taking up for the cop in this shooting as of now but would it make a difference to you if the unarmed man running away was wanted for murder, rape, or molestation. There are circumstances I believe where if the disengaging suspect poses a public threat by getting away then by all means shoot them in back.

That is an extremely rare circumstance.


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[oleheat]

Going back to the beginning, how does one negotiate the fine art of getting pulled over for a busted tail light and ending up in a struggle over a cop's equipment?

 

[dwr461]

I'm just adding to motor51.

I still don't have enough information to have a objective rational viewpoint.

Dave




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