Armslist.com to be sued by The Brady Center for murder

[Speedlace]

Gun-control group to sue Internet gun advertiser in Oak Brook case

A national gun-control group plans to file a lawsuit Wednesday in Cook County Circuit Court against an Internet gun advertiser on behalf of the family of a woman shot to death by a stalker.

The Brady Center plans to sue armslist.com, whose website showcased the handgun used in the killing of Jitka Vesel last year in Oak Brook, officials say. Vesel’s former boyfriend, Dmitry Smirnov, is serving a life sentence for the murder.

The lawsuit is a “first of its kind” against a gun website, according to the Brady Center.

Armslist.com facilitates illegal gun sales to unlawful buyers with no background checks and no questions asked, the lawsuit said.

The site lets users search for sellers in all 50 states, allowing them to evade laws requiring private sellers to deal only with gun buyers from the same state, the lawsuit added.

The lawsuit provided examples of private sellers advertising that they would ship guns out of state.

The Brady Center is seeking compensation for Vesel’s brother, Alex Vesely, named as a special administrator for his sister’s estate.

In the Vesel case, her killer saw a .40-caliber Smith & Wesson advertised on armslist.com, officials said.

Smirnov — a resident of Vancouver, Canada — arranged with Benedict Ladera to buy the weapon outside a casino in Washington state.

During the private sale, Smirnov told Ladera he was from Canada and needed a gun because he was robbed. Ladera later pleaded guilty to the illegal transfer of a firearm to an out-of-state resident and was sentenced to a year in prison.

http://www.suntimes.com/16956821-76...nternet-gun-advertiser-in-oak-brook-case.html

 

[Jack]

The lawsuit provided examples of private sellers advertising that they would ship guns out of state.

How is that illegal?

 

[JNieman]

How is that illegal?

They're probably twisting it to insinuate that they're willing to ship to unlicensed individuals out of state.

Sucks that Armslist has to foot the bill, but maybe this will set a precedent of protection for such sites, similar to the legislation protecting manufacturers from liability. I can't see the Brady Center winning, unless it merely bankrupts Armslist.

There's already been cases holding harmless the websites that facilitate social meetups and "Match.com" in the cases of assault/rape/pregnancy/etc.

 

[headspace]

They're probably twisting it to insinuate that they're willing to ship to unlicensed individuals out of state.

Sucks that Armslist has to foot the bill, but maybe this will set a precedent of protection for such sites, similar to the legislation protecting manufacturers from liability. I can't see the Brady Center winning, unless it merely bankrupts Armslist.

There's already been cases holding harmless the websites that facilitate social meetups and "Match.com" in the cases of assault/rape/pregnancy/etc.

it does suck. But I got a feeling this is gonna set a precedent to do away with private party gun sales...

 

[JNieman]

it does suck. But I got a feeling this is gonna set a precedent to do away with private party gun sales...

Nah, I think that's too far, and too many people would fight it.

That level of restriction is not a new idea, and has been fought hard by every level of gun owner, even those against "assault rifles".

That'll never pass current Congress, even if it's asked for.

 

[oleheat]

I certainly agree it's going too far (obviously), but I do believe that's EXACTLY what they're at least trying to work towards- with their typical sleezey tactics, as always.....

 

[Kraut]

I guess "they" should also start retroactively suing all the newspapers that publish classified ads selling guns, and small businesses that have corkboards where people tack up handwritten ads.

 

[Gus McCrae]

That's just silly.

 

[oleheat]

Someone smarter than myself (and that could be any of you) needs to come up with a plan to sue them.

Sure sounds like their legal department could stand some financial setback.

 

[SeventhSon]

Yipee! Now I can sue the AT&T store for selling the guy a phone who then ran a red light and smashed into my truck while talking on the phone THEY sold him. I'll be RICH!!!!!!!

Then I can sue GMC for selling him his truck!

Then I can sue his wife for talking to him on the phone even though she knew he was driving at the time!

Who can I sue next?

 

[oleheat]

I still haven't killed a deer this season.


Can I sue the LDWF?

How about bear damage to property? Can I hold the Department liable, or sue the bear? Or Bear Grylls?

 

[SeventhSon]

Turn about is fair play. Maybe some pro-gun organization needs to find someone who applied and was denied a permit to carry because of some crap law that THEY helped run through and was later killed and have that family sue them for his/her death. Would make about as much sense as their lawsuit.

 

[DS727]

Someone should ask the Brady Bunch why they hate America and the Constitution so much.

I still blame John Hinkley, Jr. for #1 being idiot enough to try and kill the President, and #2 for not using a gun big enough to do the job you want to accomplish, therefore leaving a man brain damaged and in a wheelchair for the rest of his life. Thus causing law abiding gun owners 20 years of grief because of his stupidity.

 

[10November1775]

Yipee! Now I can sue the AT&T store for selling the guy a phone who then ran a red light and smashed into my truck while talking on the phone THEY sold him. I'll be RICH!!!!!!!

Then I can sue GMC for selling him his truck!

Then I can sue his wife for talking to him on the phone even though she knew he was driving at the time!

Who can I sue next?

Sad thing is, this is similar to a recent lawsuit i heard about. Not suprising, but still sad. Welcome to idiocracy.

 

[Sin-ster]

Turn about is fair play. Maybe some pro-gun organization needs to find someone who applied and was denied a permit to carry because of some crap law that THEY helped run through and was later killed and have that family sue them for his/her death. Would make about as much sense as their lawsuit.

Actually, that sounds a LOT more viable to me...

 

[oleheat]

When I first read the title of this thread, I honestly thought Speedlace forgot to capitalize the "m" in murder.

Seeing as they believe in neutralizing the natural right to self-defense, The Brady Center for Murder actually seems like a pretty fitting title.....

 

[Hitman]

I think this is going to be good. This gives a chance for this whole Internet Gun sales argument to be completely ripped to shreds.

Lets just hope someone backs them up with the know how to do it.

 

[Speedlace]

Q: What is the nature of this lawsuit?
A: On December 12, 2012, attorneys at the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence and Burke Wise filed a lawsuit in the Circuit Court of Cook County, Illinois against Armslist.com, an Internet gun web site, on behalf of the family of Jitka Vesel, who was murdered by a stalker. The complaint alleges that Jitka was killed with a gun sold illegally in a sale facilitated online by the web site.


Q: What is new about this lawsuit?
A: This is the first lawsuit against an online gun website for causing a shooting.
...

Q: What do the plaintiffs allege that the defendants did to cause the shooting?
A: The complaint alleges that he illegally purchased from a private seller whom he located through armslist.com, an online gun auction site owned by defendant Armslist, LLC. The complaint alleges that the website's design facilitates illegal gun sales to unlawful gun buyers with no background checks and no questions asked, and encourages and enables users to evade laws that allow private sellers to sell firearms only to residents of their own state by enticing prospective buyers to search for and find gun sellers throughout all 50 states.


Q: What is the basic theory of the case?
A: Website operators should not enable killers to illegally obtain guns at the click of a mouse. Responsible gun sellers and web site operators, like most Americans, recognize that guns should be sold with the greatest care, to prevent arming dangerous people with the means to kill. Over 10 years ago, in 1999, eBay announced it was ending gun sales online. Craigslist followed a few years ago. Other online websites that allow private parties to post goods for sale, including Amazon.com and Google AdWords, also prohibit the listing of firearms for sale because of the high likelihood that such gun sales will funnel guns to the criminal market. Gun sellers and web site operators who knowingly funnel guns into the hands of killers and criminals must be held accountable. We as a nation are better than an anonymous Internet gun market where killers and criminals can easily get guns.
http://bradycampaign.org/advocates/vesel-q-and-a

 

[Bill Baldwin]

Someone smarter than myself (and that could be any of you) needs to come up with a plan to sue them.

Sure sounds like their legal department could stand some financial setback.

They've got no assets to take. Brady has been operating in the red for several years now. The Joyce Foundation cut them off and hasn't awarded them a grant in several years. They've been running at a net loss of about $750K since 2008(their total liabilities is about $1.3M), they're down to 21 employees (5 are board members) and they don't even have a nice enough office to be able to keep interns to tweet for them.

Hopefully SAF will get involved and spank Brady around a couple of more times.

 

[oleheat]

They've got no assets to take. Brady has been operating in the red for several years now. The Joyce Foundation cut them off and hasn't awarded them a grant in several years. They've been running at a net loss of about $750K since 2008(their total liabilities is about $1.3M), they're down to 21 employees (5 are board members) and they don't even have a nice enough office to be able to keep interns to tweet for them.

Hopefully SAF will get involved and spank Brady around a couple of more times.

Oh I'm sure they aren't exactly a present-day powerhouse, but I'd like to see a scenario play out where those few remaining staff members are walking around wearing pickle barrels in the dark.