Atf 41P Update for Trusts LLCs

[DAVE_M]

Since 41p appears to eliminate the Cleo signoff and replaces it with a notification. What are the particulars on notification post card, voice mail, text etc. I have not read how it specifies this . Also instead of notifing The local CLEO (sherrif) you could also notify the DA, state police. etc.

A copy of your application will do.

 

[flamatrix99]

Ok I have never had much interest in NFA stuff but I was thinking of getting a can or two. I know this is a basic question but what is the advantage of having a trust? and do you set up the trust then buy NFA items or buy first then the trust?

 

[themcfarland]

Ok I have never had much interest in NFA stuff but I was thinking of getting a can or two. I know this is a basic question but what is the advantage of having a trust? and do you set up the trust then buy NFA items or buy first then the trust?

You can buy them first then get a trust and transfer them if you dont mind paying taxes twice..
the trust eliminates the need fro CLEO signoff, removed need for background check or fingerprints.. and anyone on the trust can have posession of the items.. for example, if you and wife are in truck together.. you are sole owner of devices and you decide to do something .. outside of the vehicle and you leave it in vehicle.. she is now in possession of the whatever you have and can be charged if they want to be dicks.. the trust would cover you both..

 

[Emperor]

So, what's the chance that this becomes law and we don't need to worry about this nonsense for our suppressors?

Nonsense is right! Is there any wonder why so many people just don't care about all of this crap with the regulatory knuckleheads?

I would never advocate law breaking, but it is getting that I really don't give a crap about having a stamp, or having a Trust or Corp. to own the trinkets for guns. And to think that the federal govt pays idiots to sit around all day, all week, all month, all year, all their careers (except every major and inane holiday), to find more ways to inconvenience people that have firearms when there is a hundred more pressing issues that affect ALL Americans is testament to how stupid this country has become.

 

[JadeRaven]

Nonsense is right! Is there any wonder why so many people just don't care about all of this crap with the regulatory knuckleheads?

I would never advocate law breaking, but it is getting that I really don't give a crap about having a stamp, or having a Trust or Corp. to own the trinkets for guns. And to think that the federal govt pays idiots to sit around all day, all week, all month, all year, all their careers (except every major and inane holiday), to find more ways to inconvenience people that have firearms when there is a hundred more pressing issues that affect ALL Americans is testament to how stupid this country has become.

I feel the same way, but more along the lines of I don't care enough about getting any more trinkets for guns, so that I don't have to worry about any more stamps or paperwork etc.

It's easier for me now that I already have a good stamp collection, and the urge is much less to add anything else at this point. Before this extra hassle, it was a question of whether or not I want to spend the money (seems like each suppressor is at least a grand all said and done), and now I'm happy just to save the money and the headache. So I guess for now Obama has won.

Still, I was really, really looking forward to picking up some SBR X95s in the future, so that's a bummer. Knowing me I'll probably end up tinkering with my trust to make it happen.

 

[Grandpa]

Question

If I decide to abandon my trust after this goes into effect and transfer my NFA items to myself does it require another $200 fee?

If I understand corrrectly if you have a NFA trust solely in your name, or own solely in your name; you cannot loan the weapon to a grown son to go shooting. It would be illegal for him to be in possession of that weapon. But if you have a trust and you list your son as a co-owner of the trust, he could legally take possesion of the weapon and go shooting with it. Do I understand this correctly? I have my eldest son listed on my trust for that reason. It also clears up succession of the weapons when I die.

Grandpa.

 

[JCcypress]

If I understand corrrectly if you have a NFA solely in your name, you cannot loan the weapon to a grown son to go shooting. It would be illegal for him to be in possession of that weapon. But if you have a trust and you list your son as a co-owner of the trust, he could legally take possesion of the weapon and go shooting with it. Do I understand this correctly? I have my eldest son listed on my trust for that reason. It also clears up succession of the weapons when I die.

Grandpa.

Conceptually, you are correct. If you own an NFA item as an individual, you are the only person that may possess the item. Under a trust, your trustees may possess the item outside of your presence.

 

[JCcypress]

Here is my take on the situation as it stands at this moment:

http://www.laguntrusts.com/blog/41p-final-proposal-synopsis

 

[Grandpa]

Conceptually, you are correct. If you own an NFA item as an individual, you are the only person that may possess the item. Under a trust, your trustees may possess the item outside of your presence.

Thanks JC. In my opinion, this point alone justifies having a trust.

Grandpa

 

[JCcypress]

Individual ownership is fine for someone who:

1) Has no intention of ever allowing a family member or friend possess the item;
2) Has no long term desire to leave the items to their family or anyone else;
3) Does not have a problem resubmitting fingerprints, photo, and questionnaire for every application that they file.

I just wouldn't want to limit my options like that. The new rules are an inconvenience, but they are manageable.

Not to mention, the changes don't take effect for at least 6 months from today, which is plenty of time to get a trust established and get NFA applications filed.

 

[JadeRaven]

Individual ownership is fine for someone who:

1) Has no intention of ever allowing a family member or friend possess the item;
2) Has no long term desire to leave the items to their family or anyone else;
3) Does not have a problem resubmitting fingerprints, photo, and questionnaire for every application that they file.

I just wouldn't want to limit my options like that. The new rules are an inconvenience, but they are manageable.

Not to mention, the changes don't take effect for at least 6 months from today, which is plenty of time to get a trust established and get NFA applications filed.

Is ATF getting rid of Form 5 free transfers to lawful heirs?

 

[US Infidel]

Is there a definite date of when this happens?


Vas te faire encule Isis. Nous sommes Unis

 

[JCcypress]

Is ATF getting rid of Form 5 free transfers to lawful heirs?

You are correct, and I should have been more clear.

2) Has no desire to leave leave the items to a lawful heir without burdening them with the necessity of filing another application through the ATF;

Thank you.

ETA: To this issue, the new rules actually loosen the reigns on the executor of an estate during the probate period, as well. Strangely, some good has come from this proposal.

 

[JCcypress]

Is there a definite date of when this happens?


Vas te faire encule Isis. Nous sommes Unis

180 days from the date of publication in the Federal Registry. As of now, we do not know the when the date of publication will be.

 

[flamatrix99]

seems like each suppressor is at least a grand all said and done

Ouch..

Thats why I haven't gone the NFA route... Not sure I was to waste that kind of money on shooting quietly...

 

[US Infidel]

Ouch..

Thats why I haven't gone the NFA route... Not sure I was to waste that kind of money on shooting quietly...

They can cost a lot, but some are much cheaper than $1,000. Worth every penny IMO. It's still a cheaper hobby than having a boat.


Vas te faire encule Isis. Nous sommes Unis

 

[LPS]

OK I have a few questions

Has 41p went into affect yet? And when it does we have 180 days from that date before everyone on the trusts have to go through the background check?

If I read the summary right beneficiaries do not have to go through the background check correct?



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[dantheman]

Suppose someone owns a can. This person dies and there is no spouse . What happens to the can from a legal standpoint ?

 

[Tony Stark]

There has been alot of talk of the advantages of setting up a trust, but are there any glaring disadvantages? I'm strongly considering doing this soon...so JCcypress may be hearing from me soon

 

[Daddy-O]

OK I have a few questions

Has 41p went into affect yet?

No. It will 180 days after it is published in the Federal Register.

And when it does we have 180 days from that date before everyone on the trusts have to go through the background check?

It is in effect 180 days after it is published. Any approved forms are not impacted. Any forms currently in a "pending" status are also grandfathered in. Paperwork without the additional materials will, presumably, get kicked back after implementation.

If I read the summary right beneficiaries do not have to go through the background check correct?

Generally, yes. See page 239:

An example of who may be excluded from this definition of responsible person is the beneficiary of a trust, if the beneficiary does not have the capability to exercise the powers or authorities enumerated in this
section.

Hope that helps.

There has been alot of talk of the advantages of setting up a trust, but are there any glaring disadvantages?

Other than the relatively minor cost and time to set it up, not really. And the advantages outweigh that, even with 41P, imho.