ATF Bust.
- Thread starter JBP55
- Start date
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I bet he answered everything truthfully on the form. I always do. Yes, im the actual buyer of this firearm. If I decide I don’t like it or need some cash TOMORROW and decide to sell it THE DAY AFTER THAT, it is within my legal rights to do so. There are no clear measurable parameters to govern that legal practice. Only a lot of doubt created by some unknown source(s), although the 2nd amendment is straightforward. The RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE….SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED. This same language is used throughout the Bill of Rights. If they try to redefine that language for the 2nd amendment, they’d have to do the same for the entire Bill of Rights. Then what would we have?
Pretty typical that they grab whomever they can and prosecute them and consider them guilty until proven innocent.
Next they will state that he knowingly sold a firearm to a known felon. How the hell do they know what you know? Was the shooter a felon prior to the gun sale? Did he sign a statement for the seller, stating he was or was not a felon?
The ATF sees grey areas in the law as opportunities and wiggle room. Hopefully our courts will never see it that way.
Pretty typical that they grab whomever they can and prosecute them and consider them guilty until proven innocent.
Next they will state that he knowingly sold a firearm to a known felon. How the hell do they know what you know? Was the shooter a felon prior to the gun sale? Did he sign a statement for the seller, stating he was or was not a felon?
The ATF sees grey areas in the law as opportunities and wiggle room. Hopefully our courts will never see it that way.
I'm conflicted on this . I have witnessed "straw purchase " before where "Auntie " would go with a yong punk looking kid and let him pick out the gun he wanted . If someone buys dozens of new guns and a month later they are all sold to other people it's pretty clear the other people are not able to legally have guns . Of course he may still have all the other guns and just didn't like that one . I would have to see all the evidence before I passed judgment one way or the other . That said I agree that the ATF , cops and prosecutors often don't care if you are guilty only if they can arrest charge and get a conviction .
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flamatrix99
Well-Known Member
My wife went to a shop once and told them she was looking for blah blah blah to buy for her husband. They kindly explained to her that they couldn't do that and she would have to bring me with her. I was grateful they weren't rude to her because she honestly didn't realize she couldn't do that. Yes we did go back and I got to pick what I wanted.
And that’s the way is should happen at all gun shops. Especially if they wanna keep a customer.
Most will say that you may gift a gun you own (same laws for a sale apply) but you can’t outright buy for another person. In other words, there is a background check that must be satisfied for that person before that person can own that gun. As implied earlier, you’re taking your chances with the ATF with anything to do with a gun, but especially in a case of a casual private transaction, selling or gifting.
You can pay for it but the form 4473 needs to be filled out by the person that the firearm willbe for
Some of you really need to download the 4473 and read instructions for block 21a.
YES, you can buy a firearm as a gift.
"A person is also the actual transferee/buyer if he/she is legitimately purchasing the firearm as a bona fide gift for a third party"
"A gift is not bona fide if another person offered or gave the person completing this form money, service(s), or item(s) of value to acquire the firearm for him/her, or if the other person is prohibited by law from receiving or possessing the firearm"
YES, you can buy a firearm as a gift.
"A person is also the actual transferee/buyer if he/she is legitimately purchasing the firearm as a bona fide gift for a third party"
"A gift is not bona fide if another person offered or gave the person completing this form money, service(s), or item(s) of value to acquire the firearm for him/her, or if the other person is prohibited by law from receiving or possessing the firearm"
Absolutely buying for a family member or close acquaintances but again, taking your chances with ATF outside of that. If they wanna prosecute they will. Then you’re in for the fight of your life and the best you can hope for is to beat the rap. No recoup on whatever it costs you. No counter suit. No reimbursement.
That may have been store policy, but that had nothing to do with the firearm regulations.
No! You cannot buy a furearm as a guft for anyone
No. You cannot buy a firearm as a gift for anyone. A parent may purchase a furearm as a gift for a child and that child may possess that firearm with written consent from a parent. Or in the company of that parent but no adult may purchase a firearm for another adult.
No. You cannot buy a firearm as a gift for anyone. A parent may purchase a furearm as a gift for a child and that child may possess that firearm with written consent from a parent. Or in the company of that parent but no adult may purchase a firearm for another adult.
WRONG!!!
"A person is also the actual transferee/buyer if he/she is legitimately purchasing the firearm as a bona fide gift for a third party"
"A gift is not bona fide if another person offered or gave the person completing this form money, service(s), or item(s) of value to acquire the firearm for him/her, or if the other person is prohibited by law from receiving or possessing the firearm"
"A person is also the actual transferee/buyer if he/she is legitimately purchasing the firearm as a bona fide gift for a third party"
"A gift is not bona fide if another person offered or gave the person completing this form money, service(s), or item(s) of value to acquire the firearm for him/her, or if the other person is prohibited by law from receiving or possessing the firearm"
"Read more: https://www.ammoland.com/2021/11/mi...rchasing-firearm-used-shooting/#ixzz7BqkbBicb
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"Horton had purchased 33 firearms from June 15, 2021, through October 17, 2021." None of which are currently in his possession..... may be a pattern here.
Yes, of course you can.
Did you not read what AdvancedLaser posted? He wasn't making that stuff up. He was quoting directly from the instructions on the reverse side of the Fm 4473. He was quoting the BATFE.
Perhaps you have a source of better authority than the AFT?
I poke fun by calling them the AFT, but I'm really poking fun at their current leader.
Oh, and those fine, handsome, intelligent folks at the NSA are some of the best public servants to ever monitor this post.
Seriously
I'm assuming, (I know, I know), that everyone here has filled out at least one 4473. Do y'all ever take the time to read them?
Most of y'all no. I can tell. You check that last box on the second page.
Y'all have no clue what your signing, . . . , do you?
People who sit on the other side of the counter cringe when you ask us for a new form because, "I own five houses" "I still get mail at that address" and various other excuses for us to hand you a new form.
No!!! Go update your ID, or hand me a water bill, or something else from the govt with your correct address.
Stop asking me to break the law. I don't even know you. I'm not going to risk anal rape in a prison for you.
Right now.
Homework.
Download and print a 4473.
Read it all. Front and back. Read the instructions to each question as you read the questions.
Read it aloud, if it helps.
Make every gun shop employee's job easier.
Please.
And stop asking us to break the law.
I'm assuming, (I know, I know), that everyone here has filled out at least one 4473. Do y'all ever take the time to read them?
Most of y'all no. I can tell. You check that last box on the second page.
Y'all have no clue what your signing, . . . , do you?
People who sit on the other side of the counter cringe when you ask us for a new form because, "I own five houses" "I still get mail at that address" and various other excuses for us to hand you a new form.
No!!! Go update your ID, or hand me a water bill, or something else from the govt with your correct address.
Stop asking me to break the law. I don't even know you. I'm not going to risk anal rape in a prison for you.
Right now.
Homework.
Download and print a 4473.
Read it all. Front and back. Read the instructions to each question as you read the questions.
Read it aloud, if it helps.
Make every gun shop employee's job easier.
Please.
And stop asking us to break the law.
