Auction Issue

[longshot308]

I fat fingered a bid on an auction (well known, not gunbroker), and tried to retract my bid. They wouldn't since it was within 24 hours of the auction ending, and I ended up winning at still a reasonable price. I accepted it, paid for it within the hour and got my great local FFL to email their info and I got confirmation from them that they received everything and would ship within 5 days.

After 6 days I sent a message and got a "Sorry about that we will get right on it" message the next day back. 3 more weeks go by and I send another request for info. No response. A few days later, I do it again, no response. 3 days go by and monday AM I call my credit card company and they took all the info, I read the T&C to them and they agreed to dispute it. I told the auction what was happening and the next day got a "We will notify customer service to handle this as soon as possible". Their terms say they reserve the right to take up to 2-3 weeks shipping. Its been over a month.

Very helpful lady at the CC company got my refund in 48 hours (a week faster than I was told). I get a letter later that week and it says they have 45 days to respond.

2 more weeks go by and I get a tracking number and I got a call to my FFL today that it showed up. No charges on my CC. I don't even want the rifle but how long do I let it sit? Wait 30 more days for the charge and take up space at his store? I want to email them again but it's obvious they don't care, even with the FTC violation (ok, my head is just getting big there). Any other item I don't care but they have a very cocky statement about reporting stolen firearms if a check or such is fraudulent so who knows what they would do.

Any thoughts?

 

[AustinBR]

I fat fingered a bid on an auction (well known, not gunbroker), and tried to retract my bid. They wouldn't since it was within 24 hours of the auction ending, and I ended up winning at still a reasonable price. I accepted it, paid for it within the hour and got my great local FFL to email their info and I got confirmation from them that they received everything and would ship within 5 days.

After 6 days I sent a message and got a "Sorry about that we will get right on it" message the next day back. 3 more weeks go by and I send another request for info. No response. A few days later, I do it again, no response. 3 days go by and monday AM I call my credit card company and they took all the info, I read the T&C to them and they agreed to dispute it. I told the auction what was happening and the next day got a "We will notify customer service to handle this as soon as possible". Their terms say they reserve the right to take up to 2-3 weeks shipping. Its been over a month.

Very helpful lady at the CC company got my refund in 48 hours (a week faster than I was told). I get a letter later that week and it says they have 45 days to respond.

2 more weeks go by and I get a tracking number and I got a call to my FFL today that it showed up. No charges on my CC. I don't even want the rifle but how long do I let it sit? Wait 30 more days for the charge and take up space at his store? I want to email them again but it's obvious they don't care, even with the FTC violation (ok, my head is just getting big there). Any other item I don't care but they have a very cocky statement about reporting stolen firearms if a check or such is fraudulent so who knows what they would do.

Any thoughts?

A few questions before I share any advice:

1) Did their terms & conditions explicitly state a maximum amount of time that they will take to deliver items? Or, were their T&C's vague and open ended on their duties?

2) Did your FFL already accept the rifle and log it into his inventory?

3) If yes for #2, how long is your FFL willing to hold the rifle before transferring it to you?

4) Was the item delivered to you within 45 days of you disputing the charge? Do you know if the vendor replied to the CC company in writing?

5) Does the vendor have a phone number where you can call and talk to a person?

 

[longshot308]

A few questions before I share any advice:

1) Did their terms & conditions explicitly state a maximum amount of time that they will take to deliver items? Or, were their T&C's vague and open ended on their duties?

2) Did your FFL already accept the rifle and log it into his inventory?

3) If yes for #2, how long is your FFL willing to hold the rifle before transferring it to you?

4) Was the item delivered to you within 45 days of you disputing the charge? Do you know if the vendor replied to the CC company in writing?

5) Does the vendor have a phone number where you can call and talk to a person?

1) they advertised 5 days but the T&C said they reserve the right to ship in 2-3 weeks. The shipped after I think 6.5 weeks

2) He called me that he has it in so I assume its in his records

3) Thankfully I've know him for a while and he knows what's going on so he will hold it but as a courtesy I want it off his books asap

4) It was delivered within the 45 days of the credit card company letter stating the date of dispute. I think it was about 17 days

5)They do but have not responded to voicemails. It's been a while so I guess I could try again.

 

[longshot308]

Paid sept 25th, only email back was Oct 3rd and CC dispute filed on Oct 30, shipped Nov 9, arrived today

 

[AustinBR]

My advice would be to call your bank's fraud group and ask about the disputed transaction and if they received any communication from the auction company. That would probably be a good starting point. Explain to your bank what happened and see what they say.

Next option would be to see if the FFL has any ability to return to sender. I'm not sure how that works. @southerncanuck & @AdvancedLaser are both FFLs - can you comment on this?

It sounds like the company violated their own conditions, so my view is that the contract is void, though I don't have anything in front of me. My only concern would be them trying to push back and say that they ultimately delivered and thus you now own them money again. You really need to get them to respond to you.

 

[longshot308]

I appreciate the feedback. I will call my bank again at minimum to see what's on record. I may call the auction again also but may try some meditation before that.
I'm just trying to stay ahead of this to make sure I don't get in any trouble. There are some FTC rules about shipping within 30 days and they would be required to contact me and option a refund.
I immediately thought what would happen if they just stopped responding altogether.

 

[southerncanuck]

My personal call would be to go pick up the free gun and that’s the end of it.

 

[longshot308]

My personal call would be to go pick up the free gun and that’s the end of it.

I have the angel and devil on my shoulders.

One wants to be polite, formal and legal. The other wants to run with it.

 

[southerncanuck]

I have the angel and devil on my shoulders.

One wants to be polite, formal and legal. The other wants to run with it.

You’ve nailed it: this is primarily an ethical debate.

Sounds to me like they were assholes and karma swung back enthusiastically. Their problem, not yours.

But remember the gun still isn’t yours until you’ve signed the 4473 and taken possession, so if you did want to be opportunistic about things you’d probably want to go pick it up as soon as you can.

 

[longshot308]

You’ve nailed it: this is primarily an ethical debate.

Sounds to me like they were assholes and karma swung back enthusiastically. Their problem, not yours.

But remember the gun still isn’t yours until you’ve signed the 4473 and taken possession, so if you did want to be opportunistic about things you’d probably want to go pick it up as soon as you can.

That is possible, but they had that "brave" claim about not paying and reported stolen. It wouldn't be worth even the smallest amount of court involvement. I almost want nothing to occur. I also wouldn't mind an email saying "Our bad, we will tell them to ship it back".

 

[70mikenike70]

I have the angel and devil on my shoulders.

One wants to be polite, formal and legal. The other wants to run with it.

I am on the fence with this in a different way.
1. Do the right thing and get it sent back.
2. My Pastor always says “If you walk out of walmart with an extra item in your cart, you better walk back in and either pay for it or give it back! Is that extra item worth going to hell over?”
If you didn’t pay for it then it’s not yours…. Trust me I wish the gun ferry would give us all something free!
Im going with option 1 that allows me into heaven lol…

 

[Fugum]

I don't think I'd sleep well at night if I took possession of a gun I didn't pay for. Karma's a bitch

 

[70mikenike70]

I don't think I'd sleep well at night if I took possession of a gun I didn't pay for. Karma's a bitch

So true! Is that her stripper name!

 

[southerncanuck]

I don't think I'd sleep well at night if I took possession of a gun I didn't pay for. Karma's a bitch

Different takes on Karma, I guess.

I see this company being sloppy, disrespectful and cavalier. Accepting someone’s trust and hard-earned money isn’t something to be taken lightly. Shipping a gun takes 15 minutes, not 6 weeks. They’re too sloppy to keep their books straight, send off a free gun to a gentleman they were pricks to, and a few weeks go by and they don’t even notice it. They probably never will. That’s beautiful karma to me.

 

[longshot308]

I am on the fence with this in a different way.
1. Do the right thing and get it sent back.
2. My Pastor always says “If you walk out of walmart with an extra item in your cart, you better walk back in and either pay for it or give it back! Is that extra item worth going to hell over?”
If you didn’t pay for it then it’s not yours…. Trust me I wish the gun ferry would give us all something free!
Im going with option 1 that allows me into heaven lol…

Yeah, I was taught the same and learned in my short life. I have a lot more peace that way.

To add on to the previous comments, I will but on an honest effort to contact them and keep it legal. Even donating it to something crossed my mind (Maybe after I play with it a little first). I got some friends with many kids on the way at one time so maybe it can be used to help them, and they are some of the best, hardest working people I know and I know it wouldn't be wasted.
Being that it's a firearm and there's some legal stuff involved.... I defiantly am not tempting anything.

 

[longshot308]

I don't think I'd sleep well at night if I took possession of a gun I didn't pay for. Karma's a bitch

That's the funny thing is that I did pay for it, within 1 hour of getting the invoice. I just got backed up by the law, a contract and my CC company.
Ok, that sounded a bit dramatic, but you get the idea.

 

[70mikenike70]

Yeah, I was taught the same and learned in my short life. I have a lot more peace that way.

To add on to the previous comments, I will but on an honest effort to contact them and keep it legal. Even donating it to something crossed my mind (Maybe after I play with it a little first). I got some friends with many kids on the way at one time so maybe it can be used to help them, and they are some of the best, hardest working people I know and I know it wouldn't be wasted.
Being that it's a firearm and there's some legal stuff involved.... I defiantly am not tempting anything.

Also remember the alphabet boys who troll these forums. I wouldn’t put it past someone to follow up on this…

 

[twinin]

Tell them the FFL has it and they can pay him to send it back. I doubt they would try a restocking fee after all this

 

[3fifty7]

Several years ago I bought a used rifle from AuctionArms, had it sent to a local FFL. There was an undisclosed crack/broken trigger guard, I noticed this during the “3 day non firing inspection period” and had the FFL return it back to the seller and a refund was issued. About a month later I got an apologetic email from the seller saying my rifle got overlooked and never shipped out. They wanted to confirm I still wanted to use the same FFL. It took some convincing on my part but eventually they believed me that it in fact had been shipped, returned, and refunded.
It crossed my mind for a split second that I could possibly get a free rifle out of the deal but only a split second. It’s never worth it.

 

[thperez1972]

You mentioned the seller shipped it out late and your card was not charged. Was your card initially charged? Just because the CC company returned your charge does not mean the CC company got the money back from the seller. Many times the CC company will refund their customer using money already budgeted as a loss.

It could be that from your perspective, you got your money back and you don't have a rifle. And from the seller's perspective, they were paid by the CC company when you initially made the purchase and they shipped the rifle. The CC may be the entity that is out financially.

I would call the CC company and ask them for guidance. After all, it may be the CC company that has actually paid for the unclaimed rifle.