Auction Issue

[longshot308]

Several years ago I bought a used rifle from AuctionArms, had it sent to a local FFL. There was an undisclosed crack/broken trigger guard, I noticed this during the “3 day non firing inspection period” and had the FFL return it back to the seller and a refund was issued. About a month later I got an apologetic email from the seller saying my rifle got overlooked and never shipped out. They wanted to confirm I still wanted to use the same FFL. It took some convincing on my part but eventually they believed me that it in fact had been shipped, returned, and refunded.
It crossed my mind for a split second that I could possibly get a free rifle out of the deal but only a split second. It’s never worth it.

Same boat. It was a split second thought. I want it sent back and no legal troubles.

 

[longshot308]

You mentioned the seller shipped it out late and your card was not charged. Was your card initially charged? Just because the CC company returned your charge does not mean the CC company got the money back from the seller. Many times the CC company will refund their customer using money already budgeted as a loss.

It could be that from your perspective, you got your money back and you don't have a rifle. And from the seller's perspective, they were paid by the CC company when you initially made the purchase and they shipped the rifle. The CC may be the entity that is out financially.

I would call the CC company and ask them for guidance. After all, it may be the CC company that has actually paid for the unclaimed rifle.

It was charged right when I paid for it. I disputed it after they stopped responding to me and the CC company said they would contact them and 2 days later I had a refund.
Some time later I got a shipping notice and I semi sarcastically asked what for and they referenced an invoice. I didn't even look at the number to see if they even got that right.
My card at the moment has not been charged again so all that is on my statement is the initial charge and the refund from 2 weeks ago. I do plan to call the CC company because even they said it was a temporary refund but I want to see what can happen.

 

[V.Taltos]

If you don't intend on signing the form and taking the rifle, I'd tell your FFL that it's out of your hands and they can do whatever they want with it. It sounds like you've made reasonable efforts to contact the seller and for whatever reason they've been ignored. I don't know how guns are handled legally in situations like this, so you taking it might bring some problems later on?

 

[longshot308]

Also remember the alphabet boys who troll these forums. I wouldn’t put it past someone to follow up on this…

No kidding. Half my thought to even asking this question was to not only see if there is any other options I didn't think of but to also show in court that I'm trying to keep everything kosher (for lack of a better term)

 

[longshot308]

If you don't intend on signing the form and taking the rifle, I'd tell your FFL that it's out of your hands and they can do whatever they want with it. It sounds like you've made reasonable efforts to contact the seller and for whatever reason they've been ignored. I don't know how guns are handled legally in situations like this, so you taking it might bring some problems later on?

I feel like just leaving it for the FFL to do what they want can cause legal issues and me taking it could also cause issues. Just waiting it out now (and asking you fine folks for advice). If I have to take the rifle, oh well, I have a cool new rifle.

 

[V.Taltos]

I feel like just leaving it for the FFL to do what they want can cause legal issues and me taking it could also cause issues. Just waiting it out now (and asking you fine folks for advice). If I have to take the rifle, oh well, I have a cool new rifle.

Surely this situation has happened before but I don't know how you'd go about finding out how it was handled or what problems which decision brought? You could always mail the seller a check for $20 and tell them "I'm satisfied and will leave a positive review" Lol

 

[thperez1972]

It was charged right when I paid for it. I disputed it after they stopped responding to me and the CC company said they would contact them and 2 days later I had a refund.
Some time later I got a shipping notice and I semi sarcastically asked what for and they referenced an invoice. I didn't even look at the number to see if they even got that right.
My card at the moment has not been charged again so all that is on my statement is the initial charge and the refund from 2 weeks ago. I do plan to call the CC company because even they said it was a temporary refund but I want to see what can happen.

If it was a temporary refund, I would think they are likely the ones eating the charge until it's settled. If you call them and tell them the seller shipped the item you ordered and it's waiting to be picked up, they will view that as a positive resolution and will want to charge you. After all, you received the item you wanted to pay for. They may see any dissatisfaction with the shipping time as a matter between you and the seller.

 

[Peacemaker]

Send it back. You didn't want it in the first place, so send it back.

 

[longshot308]

If it was a temporary refund, I would think they are likely the ones eating the charge until it's settled. If you call them and tell them the seller shipped the item you ordered and it's waiting to be picked up, they will view that as a positive resolution and will want to charge you. After all, you received the item you wanted to pay for. They may see any dissatisfaction with the shipping time as a matter between you and the seller.

Agreed. Essentially my only leverage here is to argue the violation of their T&C but hard to do when they wont respond

 

[V.Taltos]

Agreed. Essentially my only leverage here is to argue the violation of their T&C but hard to do when they wont respond

Wait, in that case they've "abandoned" the gun so you can adopt it, right?

 

[Manimal]

You'll either send it back or be charged for it in the end. You filed the purchase dispute, so the CC company will assume that you are trying to steal a product from a seller. They will contact the seller and ask them about the purchase/problem/proof. They will temporarily credit you, just in case they are wrong and so they appear to be supporting you. If they find you in the wrong they will backdate your charge and charge you full interest for payments not made up until that point and until you pay it off. If you then appeal the finding, and you are cleared, they'll remove the charge and the interest.

I'd give relevant info to everyone, and make sure that the gun gets sent back and everyone knows about it. Document/Take pics of everything. If you have to investigate on your own then do so, but you might want to save that effort for an appeal.

 

[longshot308]

Wait, in that case they've "abandoned" the gun so you can adopt it, right?

In a wonderfully perfect and magical world, that would be true.

 

[longshot308]

If anyone is curious..
I got a call Thursday afternoon from a guy and he said that his records showed the rifle had shipped weeks ago, when I told him it was false and told the exact dates of shipping and delivery his tone changed. He gave me the "What can I do to make this purchase go through" line.

He said it would be difficult to send it back and I told him it was actually really easy to send me a shipping label to send it back to him. When he offered me a partial refund, I did the mental math and realized it was very close to the auction premium. He acted like he was throwing me a bone, and when I mentioned that, I could hear that he knew he was screwed. He also included a credit for a future purchase but...meh...

I gave him a counter and if he takes it, I'll somehow use it to help a deserving family I know that can use the help. Still waiting to hear back.

 

[longshot308]

Another update....
No real update. I send them 2 emails a week asking for someone to talk to me. I have a letter from the bank saying they have 45 days to respond which should be Thursday

Oh yeah, they didn't even send the rifle they advertised. It was supposed to be a black stock but they sent the tan. No S/N on the listing and no S/N on the paperwork they sent to the FFL. Talk about a poor business. I've never seen a firearm get shipped and the paperwork didn't have a S/N listed.

 

[longshot308]

In case anyone cares to know...
The 45 days that the bank told me went a bit over but after a call they jumped on it and 1 week later I just got a notification that they fully credited my account back from the dispute. After I called them last week, I finally got an email (after not responding to 7 emails asking for someone to contact me) asking me for my phone number...which they have and had called me on before. I gave it to them, and by surprise...no phone call.

Now what to do with the rifle that is at the FFL... This is also why I like building positive relationships with small FFL's because I can say I am very thankful for them through all of this. Just like I tell everyone to go to smaller FFL's for suppressors, the service is unmatched. Hopefully they call soon.

 

[La26]

In case anyone cares to know...
The 45 days that the bank told me went a bit over but after a call they jumped on it and 1 week later I just got a notification that they fully credited my account back from the dispute. After I called them last week, I finally got an email (after not responding to 7 emails asking for someone to contact me) asking me for my phone number...which they have and had called me on before. I gave it to them, and by surprise...no phone call.

Now what to do with the rifle that is at the FFL... This is also why I like building positive relationships with small FFL's because I can say I am very thankful for them through all of this. Just like I tell everyone to go to smaller FFL's for suppressors, the service is unmatched. Hopefully they call soon.

I think (not sure), that if your FFL dealer still has the rifle in his inventory on Jan 1st, he has to pay tax on it (inventory tax?). If that's the case, I would go to him and take delivery before then just to avoid complications for him.

 

[John_]

My personal call would be to go pick up the free gun and that’s the end of it.

Its not free. You pick up the rifle and you will pay for it. You pick it up and your CC will charge you for the rifle. FACT. You took delivery of the goods.

When you dispute a CC charge, most times they issue an immediate credit, a reversal. Then its time for the other party to respond to your claim, as you mentioned in 45 days. Just BC you received a credit for the initial charge does not mean the situation is resolved. The CC company will review all responses and make a decision on the case. I have been there, executed a dispute twice. And prevailed twice. One of them was for $557 in merchandise the seller refused to accept as a return. I prevailed, got a complete charge reversal and the merchandise too. The seller was hard headed and unwilling, and they paid for it.

Most auctions like Gunbroker are a binding agreement when you commit to a purchase. Just think of all the guys who "buy" then later want to cancel their order hours or days later. Somebody at the very least is going to eat the shipping charges for both ways, and the FFL's charge for his time and effort. There also may be a return fee for re-stocking because you changed your mind on a binding commitment to purchase. Not "fat fingers", you simply changed your mind after committing to purchase a firearm on line. Just like a member here committing to a purchase via PM or text exchange, then ghosting the seller. NOT COOL. Seems to happen pretty frequently too.

Do let us know how it is resolved in the end.

 

[John_]

@longshot308 Test the system, go pick it up at your FFL and get your "free rifle". Hey its free, right?

 

[JBP55]

I would speak to an Attorney and go from there.

 

[longshot308]

Sorry for the lack of response but here is the closing. Shortly after the last contact going into the new year, I asked for a return label and got no response for a week or so. Eventually I said that there is a policy (I didn't say who's policy) that soon the rifle would be considered abandoned and will become the property of the FFL. They emailed me back the next day saying they would send a return label right away. I got the label Jan 1 and emailed it to the FFL. Once again, I am very thankful for them helping me out and being understanding. Support your local mom & pop shops