Brandished firearm escalated argument ?; CHP holder arrested

[Speedlace]

The guy made bail, but he can't go back to his house.

Man accused in Valrico shooting won't be allowed to stay in home

TAMPA - A 69-year-old man accused of fatally shooting an Iraq War veteran during a dispute over a skateboarder in his Valrico neighborhood won't be allowed to stay in his home while awaiting trial, a judge said today.

Trevor Dooley faces charges of manslaughter, improper exhibition of a firearm and openly carrying a firearm. Judge Walter Heinrich set his bail today today at $50,000. He was released Wednesday night, according to the Hillsborough County Sheriff's Office website.
Investigators said Dooley brought a gun to the playground across the street from his house Sunday and confronted David James, 41, who had given permission to a 14-year-old to skateboard on the basketball court there. Following an argument and struggle, James was fatally shot as his 8-year-old daughter watched.

When Heinrich was told about the proximity between Dooley's home and the shooting scene, the judge said, "He's not going back to that house. He's got to have to find another place to live. I will not let him be that close to that park where this event took place – where all these kids would be."

Dooley, a Hillsborough County school bus driver, has a permit to carry a concealed weapon. But Heinrich said today that Dooley cannot carry a weapon.

After the hearing, Dooley's family spoke to the media on his behalf and extended condolences to James' family.

Dooley's brother-in-law, Desmond Langton, Dooley is a "quiet, unassuming, intelligent" married father of three who cares about others and believes family comes first.

Langton asked the media and public to hear everything out before making judgments.

"Above all, everybody wants what is right and just," Langton said. "We believe that this can best be accomplished if we allow the judicial process to take its course."

http://www2.tbo.com/content/2010/se...co-shooting-wont-be-allowed-to/news-breaking/

 

[herohog]

Wow... I haven't heard of THAT before! Berore you are tried/found guilty you are forcibly prevented from returning to YOUR PROPERTY?!?!? Lets discuss this one guys. What do y'all think of this? Is it right to banish the man from his own home pre-trial? EVER?

 

[rebelray84]

Wow... I haven't heard of THAT before! Berore you are tried/found guilty you are forcibly prevented from returning to YOUR PROPERTY?!?!? Lets discuss this one guys. What do y'all think of this? Is it right to banish the man from his own home pre-trial? EVER?

I'd much rather discuss how his bail was only $50,000 and he was only charged with manslaughter after gunning down and unarmed man in front his 8 year old.

 

[Nolacopusmc]

I'd much rather discuss how his bail was only $50,000 and he was only charged with manslaughter after gunning down and unarmed man in front his 8 year old.

The old man is 100% WRONG for going out there with the gun the way he did. That said, there is a distinct difference between premeditated murder and what could be an "accidental" shooting, even though it is his fault for initiating the contact and having the gun out when not appropriate.

Let em qualify that by "accidental" I mean there is the chance that while what he did was stupid and illegal, his intent was not to kill. If he went outside thinking in his mind that he would "scare or intimidate", while still wrong, the appropriate charge in most areas would be something similar to manslaughter.

In cases like this, while the facts and behaviors of course matter, a lot is riding on the intentions of the suspect.

While I am in no way excusing his actions, i am simply saying what he did is different than if he had raised the gun and pulled the trigger without the struggle.

At least that will be his defense. He was not going to shoot the guy, the guy yelled at him and became violent, so he raised the gun to keep him back and the guy lunged for the gun, and in the ensuing struggle, it went off....or something to that effect.\The old man was old and the young man was young...disparity of force...or something like that.

Old man was wrong, but it does not sound like anything other than manslaughter or negligent homicide.

Very similar to the guy last week that blindly shot out his window at the person under his carport. If that guy had died, it probably would have been a manslaughter charge because there was no specific intent to kill, even though what he did was stupid.

 

[rebelray84]

The old man is 100% WRONG for going out there with the gun the way he did. That said, there is a distinct difference between premeditated murder and what could be an "accidental" shooting, even though it is his fault for initiating the contact and having the gun out when not appropriate.

Let em qualify that by "accidental" I mean there is the chance that while what he did was stupid and illegal, his intent was not to kill. If he went outside thinking in his mind that he would "scare or intimidate", while still wrong, the appropriate charge in most areas would be something similar to manslaughter.

In cases like this, while the facts and behaviors of course matter, a lot is riding on the intentions of the suspect.

While I am in no way excusing his actions, i am simply saying what he did is different than if he had raised the gun and pulled the trigger without the struggle.

At least that will be his defense. He was not going to shoot the guy, the guy yelled at him and became violent, so he raised the gun to keep him back and the guy lunged for the gun, and in the ensuing struggle, it went off....or something to that effect.\The old man was old and the young man was young...disparity of force...or something like that.

Old man was wrong, but it does not sound like anything other than manslaughter or negligent homicide.

Very similar to the guy last week that blindly shot out his window at the person under his carport. If that guy had died, it probably would have been a manslaughter charge because there was no specific intent to kill, even though what he did was stupid.

Based strictly on the news story I think your incorrect.

"James defended the boy, so Dooley started arguing with him. Dooley turned to walk away, and that's when James yelled after him, questioning him about the gun sticking out of his pants, the Sheriff's Office said.

Dooley turned back and pulled out the gun, deputies said.

James lunged toward Dooley in an apparent attempt to disarm him and they struggled, falling to the ground. The gun fired, striking James in the chest.

"The suspect fired the gun," said Chief Deputy Jose Docobo. "There's no indication the victim pulled the trigger."

1.All the victim did was question him about the gun.

2.The victim did NOT try to stop him from leaving

3. The suspect turned around and PULLED OUT THE gun

4. THEN the victim lunged at him.Probably thinking the suspect was about to shoot him and/or his child.

So what was his intent in pulling the gun?What was exactly said by the victim just before that happened?

How's this for a possibillity?

Victim-"So what were you going to do with that gun anyway?"

Shooter-(whirling around) "I'll show you!" (points the gun at the victim)

Victim-(thinking) "Oh my God he's gonna shoot me and maybe my kid!"(throws himself at the shooter attempting to disarm him)

Struggle............long?brief?...........was there really one or was he in the process of pulling the trigger as the victim was hurling himself at him?Was he gonna shoot whether or not the victim lunged at him or not?

No with what has been offered via the news story I'd have went for a bit more than manslaughter and set bail higher than $50,000.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[Nolacopusmc]

Based strictly on the news story I think your incorrect.

"James defended the boy, so Dooley started arguing with him. Dooley turned to walk away, and that's when James yelled after him, questioning him about the gun sticking out of his pants, the Sheriff's Office said.

Dooley turned back and pulled out the gun, deputies said.

James lunged toward Dooley in an apparent attempt to disarm him and they struggled, falling to the ground. The gun fired, striking James in the chest.

"The suspect fired the gun," said Chief Deputy Jose Docobo. "There's no indication the victim pulled the trigger."

1.All the victim did was question him about the gun.

2.The victim did NOT try to stop him from leaving

3. The suspect turned around and PULLED OUT THE gun

4. THEN the victim lunged at him.Probably thinking the suspect was about to shoot him and/or his child.

So what was his intent in pulling the gun?What was exactly said by the victim just before that happened?

How's this for a possibillity?

Victim-"So what were you going to do with that gun anyway?"

Shooter-(whirling around) "I'll show you!" (points the gun at the victim)

Victim-(thinking) "Oh my God he's gonna shoot me and maybe my kid!"(throws himself at the shooter attempting to disarm him)

Struggle............long?brief?...........was there really one or was he in the process of pulling the trigger as the victim was hurling himself at him?Was he gonna shoot whether or not the victim lunged at him or not?

No with what has been offered via the news story I'd have went for a bit more than manslaughter and set bail higher than $50,000.

Just my 2 cents.

That is pretty much what I am saying. It IS POSSIBLE, thatt when the gun was pulled, there was no intent to shoot. Now, of course there is no way the victim could know that, hence his actions, but it is a possibility.

More often than not I have seen people pull out a gun and point it when they had no real intent to shoot--posturing. Now, at the same time, the bus driver was old, and generally speaking--old men don't play, so maybe his intention was to raise the gun and fire.

i have no idea what was going on in the old man's head, but it is a possibility.

But I can totally believe the dialogue you suggested.

 

[rebelray84]

That is pretty much what I am saying. It IS POSSIBLE, thatt when the gun was pulled, there was no intent to shoot. Now, of course there is no way the victim could know that, hence his actions, but it is a possibility.

More often than not I have seen people pull out a gun and point it when they had no real intent to shoot--posturing. Now, at the same time, the bus driver was old, and generally speaking--old men don't play, so maybe his intention was to raise the gun and fire.

i have no idea what was going on in the old man's head, but it is a possibility.

But I can totally believe the dialogue you suggested.

It is entirely possible BUT again,I really would love to know exactly what was said just before that gun was pulled.There were witnesses and I assume they gave statements.

The main things that get me are this-He instigated the whole thing,went there openly carrying even thou he had a CHP,he was walking away after saying whatever he needed to say and then turned right back around and winds up shooting the man!It almost seems like he was trying to make it all happen.

I can see him getting pissed off and wanting to go tell them off.I can see him taking a gun with him as long as it was CONCEALED.I can't see him openly carrying the gun,telling them off,walking away and then turning around and,in front of the guy's kid no less,OOPS I accidently shot him!WAY TO GO *******!

You know as well as I do how the game works.They should have charged him with more and taken less if they had to in the end.

 

[Nolacopusmc]

It is entirely possible BUT again,I really would love to know exactly what was said just before that gun was pulled.There were witnesses and I assume they gave statements.

The main things that get me are this-He instigated the whole thing,went there openly carrying even thou he had a CHP,he was walking away after saying whatever he needed to say and then turned right back around and winds up shooting the man!It almost seems like he was trying to make it all happen.

I can see him getting pissed off and wanting to go tell them off.I can see him taking a gun with him as long as it was CONCEALED.I can't see him openly carrying the gun,telling them off,walking away and then turning around and,in front of the guy's kid no less,OOPS I accidently shot him!WAY TO GO *******!

You know as well as I do how the game works.They should have charged him with more and taken less if they had to in the end.

And you see, that is why i see it completely the opposite. I see him intentionally OCing as kinda a preemptive punk so they would not start ****. If he went to talk and wanted protection, I think he would have concealed. I think choosing to OC was his way of "bucking up." I also think when the guy yelled at him, he pulled the gun to "brandish it". WHen the guy jumped on him, he could have shot intentionally or accidentally.

WHo knows?

 

[shoalsfugro]

I always find a man playing basketball with his daughter and a kid skateboarding a threat.

 

[Speedlace]

The shooter used a P-32 w/ a Crimson Trace lasergrip.

VID interview w/ the daughter

Witnesses describe Valrico shooting over skateboarders

The little girl in the green shirt walked into the interview room chewing gum.

She sat down at the table and calmly answered questions from the investigator.

At first, it was small talk.

Danielle James, 8, talked about how her dad, David "DJ" James, liked to call her "Chug-A-Bug." She talked about how she liked to ride her sparkly blue Barbie bike to the park with her friend Josh.

When the investigator asked Danielle who she lived with, the conversation turned serious.

"My mom now," she said, looking down at the table. "I lived with my mom and dad, but I am just living with my mom now, because my dad is no there anymore. He died. Somebody shot him."

Danielle James was being interviewed because her father was shot by Trevor Dooley, 69, on Sept. 26 after an argument about skateboarding, according to investigators.

The videotaped interview was released Monday afternoon along with crime scene photos, other interviews and police reports by the State Attorney's Office. The evidence, which already has been turned over to the defense, will be used at any trial of Dooley, accused of fatally shooting James, 41, in front of his daughter.

Dooley was a Hillsborough County school bus driver at the time but was since terminated. He was charged with manslaughter, improper exhibition of a weapon and open carrying of a weapon. He was released on $50,000 bail.

"This was yesterday at the basketball court," Danielle James said to the investigator.

"Who shot him?" the investigator asked.

"I don't know," Danielle said.

Then she explained what she saw.

"I was playing basketball with my dad in the community. And a kid asked if he could skateboard on the other half of the court. Cuz we weren't using that side. Then the man came out and told the kid 'no skateboarding on the court.' Then my dad wanted to know where the sign was that said no skateboarding. But my dad didn't know he had the gun. So my dad came towards him. It's kind of hard to explain the next part."

Danielle James said she didn't see the gun go off.

"I just heard the noise," she said. Then my dad said, 'Call the ambulance, I've been shot.'

But the ambulance wasn't there quick enough."

For Michael and Michelle Whitt, the afternoon of Sept. 26 was supposed to consist of a quick tennis match before heading off to their son's lacrosse game.

It turned into a horror show instead.

Just minutes into their tennis game, the Whitts witnessed the shooting.

The couple were recorded in separate interviews.

Though the husband and wife gave nearly identical accounts, they each offered details the other did not have. Michelle Whitt, for instance, recalled that James told the skateboarder not to worry, that his kids skateboarded there before.

Michael Whitt, 40, said he and his wife had been on the tennis courts for about 15 to 20 minutes.

"Nobody else was on the tennis court," he told a Hillsborough County Sheriff's Office deputy. "A man and what I am assuming was his daughter were shooting basketball on the basketball court. A young teen, 13 or 14, was riding his skateboard on the other side of the court."

Everyone on the playground at the time – the Whitts, James and his daughter and the skateboarder – was having a good time, Michael Whitt said.

That was until a man across the street stood in his garage and yelled that the young man was not allowed to skateboard in the park, Michael Whitt said.

"He did not come out of the house," Michael Whitt said. "He was standing at the door of his garage, and yelled over here. The kid kept riding."

Dooley, the man in the garage, yelled again, Michael Whitt said.

" 'Did you hear me?' " Michael Whitt recalled him saying.

James then yelled back, according to Michael Whitt.

"There are no signs posted to not ride," Michael Whitt recalled James saying.

The two men continued to yell at each other, but Michael Whitt said he was trying to play tennis with his wife and not really paying attention.

But "two or three minutes later," Michael Whitt said he saw Dooley "walking across the street. It struck me as odd. He had one pant leg pulled up to his knee."

Dooley had "both hands in his pockets" as he walked across the street toward James, Michael Whitt said.

Before he could get there, James took a few steps toward Dooley, according to Michael Whitt.

The two men exchanged more words, Michael Whitt said.

When he was about 10 feet from James, Dooley lifted up his shirt and cursed at James, according to Michael Whitt.

Dooley turned and started to walk back toward his house, Michael Whitt said. Then James started walking toward Dooley.

" 'What did you say?' " Michael Whitt said he heard James say. "What did you just say to me?' "

Dooley then turned back around toward James.

He had a gun, Michael Whitt said.

The two men were now about 8 feet apart and James lunged at Dooley, according to Michael Whitt.

"I am assuming he was thinking he was about to get shot," Michael Whitt said.

The two men struggled, said Michael Whitt. As they wrestled to the ground, the gun went off.

At first, James was holding Dooley down, according to Michael Whitt.

"He looked up and said, 'Call 911, I've been shot.' "

About 10 seconds later, James rolled off Dooley, then Dooley rolled over on his side, Michael Whitt said.

"He stood up, hobbled around a bit then went back down to his knees," Michael Whitt said.

By now, Whitt had called 911 and the operator was giving him instructions on how to check to see whether James was still alive.

Whitt said he checked his pulse in both the wrist and neck and tried to see whether James was breathing but there were no signs of life and his face was blue.

"I pressed down a little on his chest and blood came out of the bullet hole," Michael Whitt told deputies. "He made no movement."

Then the operator instructed Whitt what to say to Dooley.

Whitt said he instructed Dooley to empty his weapon and put it on the ground. Dooley, he said, stayed there until deputies arrived.

Dooley told Whitt, "'You saw him come at me, right?' or something like that. I didn't answer him."

Michael Whitt told deputies one more thing.

He saw a folding knife on the ground. He was not sure who owned it.

Michelle Whitt told investigators that the young man was skateboarding for about five minutes when Dooley yelled at him and said he was not allowed to skateboard.

James told the young man "'It was fine, don't worry. There are no signs posted. My kids skateboard here all the time,' " Michelle Whitt said.

Like her husband, Michelle Whitt said Dooley crossed the street in an aggressive manner.

He "lifted up his shirt and showed a gun," she said.

Dooley cursed at James, then walked back to his house, Michelle Whitt said.

James then started yelling at Dooley.

" 'Don't show your gun to me,' " she recalled James saying. "'Don't point a gun at me.' "

Then Dooley turned around and pointed the gun at James, Michelle Whitt said. James lunged. The two men struggled.

"They went to the ground and were wrestling on the ground," she said.

James was "sitting up on his knees" holding Dooley with one arm.

"The gun went off," Michelle Whitt said. "There was a loud pop. Blood sprayed everywhere."

Michelle Whitt said she "screamed to my husband."

Michael Whitt was running for his phone when James, still sitting on his knees, screamed "Call 911, I've been shot," she said.

"Then he rolled over on the ground and did not move again," she said.

http://www2.tbo.com/content/2010/dec/13/132156/interviews-with-couple-who-witnessed-valrico-shoot/
http://www.wtsp.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=162333

 

[Vanilla Gorilla]

Can we just agree that brandishing firearms is a bad idea?

 

[LongGoneDays]

Can we just agree that brandishing firearms is a bad idea?

No. Maybe you can show me your gun and intimidate me into seeing things your way?

 

[leVieux]

We can bet that two very different accounts will come out in court.

Why, why did the P.D. release the taped interview with the girl pre-trial?

No winner here.

leVieux

p.s. Any visible handgun will be referred to as "brandishing" by the anti-2-A press.

 

[Vanilla Gorilla]

So I can show you my gun and threaten you into seeing things my way and thats not an escalation of the situation? You either have justifiable cause to use lethal force in self defense or you don't. You do not have a legal right to wave a gun around to make a point.

 

[jjoker16]

It will boil down to "self defense" and who can claim it. Mr. Dooley will claim because he was armed and Mr. James lunged at him he was defending himself. Mr. James side will claim because Mr. Dooly was armed he was the agressor and James lunged to protect himself. Either way it gives all CCP's a bad name. Mr. Dooly should have sat his ass at home and ignored the skateboarder. There was no need to bring/pull a pistol.

^^^THIS

 

[dantheman]

I think the facts of the story will probably never be known . One man is dead , and another is fighting to stay out of jail . One thing is for sure , it's a terrible thing to happen and it was completely avoidable .

 

[Nolacopusmc]

No. Maybe you can show me your gun and intimidate me into seeing things your way?

You were being facetious right?

 

[Vanilla Gorilla]

Jesus Wept.....

 

[12secHemi]

Why is it that the bus driver hasn't been charged with a hate crime? Or is it not a hate crime when black people who shoot white people?

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/01/nyregion/01cooperstown.html
http://www.wkrg.com/florida/article/panhandle_murder_a_hate_crime/763066/Mar-01-2010_7-21-pm/
http://blog.al.com/live/2010/08/kyser_miree_begged_for_life.html

How many cases of hate crimes involve a black person killing a white person?

Oh no you di'-nt! Glad someone else was asking themselves this.

Jack

 

[Vanilla Gorilla]

It's a Hate Crime when Racisim, Bigotry, or Ethnic Animosity are the motivating captains. For instance in some states had the kid in the Floridia Shooting yelled....Die ******!....as he was shooting the Black Man he could be charged with a Hate Crime. In the Mobile Murder the Defendants are Charged with Capital Murder and facing the Death Penalty. That is the highest crime in the land and it wouldn't matter if it were a hate crime or not. Based on the few facts in the article it appears to be a Robbery ending in murder not a Hate Crime. There really aren't enough facts in any of the stories linked to understand why they were charged as Hate Crimes.

If a Black Man for instance, a member of a Black Separatist Organization, decide he was gonna go out and make a statement by lynching a white devil and then picked some random white man of the street and hung him he would probably be charged with a Hate Crime. Because in that instance the victim was targeted because of no other reason than he was white and the perpetrator harbored a race based animosity.

In most states, particularly those where a life sentence is Natural Life, charging someone with a Hate Crime after they commit murder is really just window dressing because if convicted of the Murder the perpetrator will receive a true Life Sentence regardless of whether or not it is charged as a Hate Crime.

Where Hate Crime Laws are effective is in Assaults and Property Damage Cases motivated by hate. For example; If your local Klan jerk-offs decide that instead of spending there Saturday night smoking Meth and watching wrestling like they do every Saturday night, they are instead gonna go out and beat a China Man because everybody hates a china man. They stomp the **** out of the local Korean Market owner because hey who can tell those orientals apart anyway... and then get caught because they are mouth breathing retards. During their interviews it becomes clear they weren't there to rob the guy they just wanted to beat an Asian they would in all likely hood be charged with a Hate Crime. Which in this case is a good tool to get them longer sentences then they would have gotten had the gut stomped a guy for a reason more complex then the victim being a foreigner.

You see unfortunately there are still enough hate mongering racist retards in this country that we have to have special laws on the books to protect people from them. Sad I know.