Guate_shooter
LA CHP Instructor # 522
seems that most of us were wrong on this issue including myself & the "Attorney" that was mentioned in the previous thread, so please make this an "informational" thread for future reference.
Brannon LeBouef, NOLACOPUSMC, posted this on his forum and asked me if I would post it here so that DAWG23 would see it and those who have read his earlier opinions about the subject would know of his retraction.
He asked I copy and paste it here:
Part of being a great teacher is to be a great student. Part of the journey to teach others is to always make pit stops to learn.
Also, as a personal matter, I believe it imperative to admit when one was wrong in order to continue to grow. No one has all the answers, myself included. I have fought quite vehemently with several people about this very topic. Some I think were accidentally right without knowing it, but a couple actually knew the information that follows. The important thing is that the right information gets out to people so they are educated.
In particular, I would like to acknowledge that Dawg23, CHP instructor Ernie Gammon, was correct about the final opinion on this matter. I wish he would have articulated it better years ago instead of us going round and round, but right is right. He was right, and I was wrong. Sorry Ernie, wish we could have debated this more civilly from both ends and to a better resolve.
To that end, I have been educated about a particular topic that has been a constant chaw on various internet forums:
QUESTION? Can you carry concealed, on your person, in your vehicle, without a permit?
I have always stated that you cannot due to the fact that the statute for illegal carrying of a concealed firearm, LARS 14:95, did not specifically list it as an exception. I have since had a very enlightening discussion with someone who has a lot more legal knowledge and access than myself, and the way he explained it to me makes perfect sense (Sgt Reavis).
It centers around the way the state views people and their personal private property, as evidenced in statutes like LARS 14:95.2, where it states
I always said that you cannot take that clause from 14:95.2 and try to apply it to 14:95 because they were separate laws. While that general "rule" is correct, in this particular case, the fact that the statute specifically defines what a constitutionally protected area is (the car), then that fact can be applied to other statutes as it is applying the constitution to a statute rather than the other way around. Basically, that statement, within 14:95.2, shows the legislative intent of the law. Since the legislative intent is known, that same intent can be applied to other similar laws.
Now, we must understand that it is in the courtroom that these issues will come to bare. Many LEO will not have this level of knowledge, and it is unreasonable for us to expect them to. It is still possible that you could be arrested for it, but you would have strong ground to support a defense if the DA would even accept the charges, and even further if a court would actually find you guilty.
BOTTOM LINE- Our state holds the rights of a person's private property to be absolute, therefore, you are much more protected on your personal property, or in it if it is a car, boat, etc, than when you are not. That does not mean you can do whatever you want, but it would appear you can conceal carry in your car or home or on personal property without a permit.
Now, I would not necessarily recommend you do that if you have the means to get a permit, because it falls under the flag of "You might beat the rap, but you will never beat the ride."
It is unlikely many LEO's will be aware of this. They will read the law, view it the way I did, and possibly arrest you. Then again, they may not, and we know that is the case with any LEO interaction. You are still arrested and have to endure the trouble and drama that goes with the process. Having the permit gives you additional options and allows you greater protection against other people's ignorance of fact.
I am awaiting some case law for reference that further explains and outlines this, and will post it here and in the FACT when available.
Respectfully
Brannon LeBouef
Brannon LeBouef, NOLACOPUSMC, posted this on his forum and asked me if I would post it here so that DAWG23 would see it and those who have read his earlier opinions about the subject would know of his retraction.
He asked I copy and paste it here:
Part of being a great teacher is to be a great student. Part of the journey to teach others is to always make pit stops to learn.
Also, as a personal matter, I believe it imperative to admit when one was wrong in order to continue to grow. No one has all the answers, myself included. I have fought quite vehemently with several people about this very topic. Some I think were accidentally right without knowing it, but a couple actually knew the information that follows. The important thing is that the right information gets out to people so they are educated.
In particular, I would like to acknowledge that Dawg23, CHP instructor Ernie Gammon, was correct about the final opinion on this matter. I wish he would have articulated it better years ago instead of us going round and round, but right is right. He was right, and I was wrong. Sorry Ernie, wish we could have debated this more civilly from both ends and to a better resolve.
To that end, I have been educated about a particular topic that has been a constant chaw on various internet forums:
QUESTION? Can you carry concealed, on your person, in your vehicle, without a permit?
I have always stated that you cannot due to the fact that the statute for illegal carrying of a concealed firearm, LARS 14:95, did not specifically list it as an exception. I have since had a very enlightening discussion with someone who has a lot more legal knowledge and access than myself, and the way he explained it to me makes perfect sense (Sgt Reavis).
It centers around the way the state views people and their personal private property, as evidenced in statutes like LARS 14:95.2, where it states
I always said that you cannot take that clause from 14:95.2 and try to apply it to 14:95 because they were separate laws. While that general "rule" is correct, in this particular case, the fact that the statute specifically defines what a constitutionally protected area is (the car), then that fact can be applied to other statutes as it is applying the constitution to a statute rather than the other way around. Basically, that statement, within 14:95.2, shows the legislative intent of the law. Since the legislative intent is known, that same intent can be applied to other similar laws.
Now, we must understand that it is in the courtroom that these issues will come to bare. Many LEO will not have this level of knowledge, and it is unreasonable for us to expect them to. It is still possible that you could be arrested for it, but you would have strong ground to support a defense if the DA would even accept the charges, and even further if a court would actually find you guilty.
BOTTOM LINE- Our state holds the rights of a person's private property to be absolute, therefore, you are much more protected on your personal property, or in it if it is a car, boat, etc, than when you are not. That does not mean you can do whatever you want, but it would appear you can conceal carry in your car or home or on personal property without a permit.
Now, I would not necessarily recommend you do that if you have the means to get a permit, because it falls under the flag of "You might beat the rap, but you will never beat the ride."
It is unlikely many LEO's will be aware of this. They will read the law, view it the way I did, and possibly arrest you. Then again, they may not, and we know that is the case with any LEO interaction. You are still arrested and have to endure the trouble and drama that goes with the process. Having the permit gives you additional options and allows you greater protection against other people's ignorance of fact.
I am awaiting some case law for reference that further explains and outlines this, and will post it here and in the FACT when available.
Respectfully
Brannon LeBouef
Last edited by a moderator:
