Car carry question?

[charlie12]

I was reading a story written by Gordon Hutchinson and I don't agree with one part about telling the LEO you have a gun in the car just because you have a permit. I know I have to inform them if I'm out of the car.
Here is the part of his story.


"Therefore, if stopped by a law-enforcement officer for a traffic violation, it is a good practice to tell him if you have a gun in the glove box on top of the papers he is requesting. If it is not in such an awkward place, where the cop might understandably get excited if he witnesses you fumbling around for records while putting your hands on a gun, you do not need to tell him of the gun — there is no violation of the law in having the gun in your car.

If you have a concealed-carry permit, however, you are required by law to inform an officer conducting an official investigation that you have a permit, and whether you are in possession of a handgun. If the officer requests, you are required by law to surrender the gun to him while he is conducting the investigation."

What's your take?

 

[CavalryJim]

Unless the weapon is actually on my person, I don't plan on volunteering the information.

 

[charlie12]

Unless the weapon is actually on my person, I don't plan on volunteering the information.

That was my take on it too. I know if I'm out of the car and a LEO approaches me in an official manner I need to inform him/her.
So if the car is an extension of my home then if a LEO came to my home and knocked on the door I would have to tell him I have guns in the house?

 

[Witness]

Unless the weapon is actually on my person, I don't plan on volunteering the information.

i agree. unless of course i have move the gun to get my paper out the glove box. if your gun is sitting ontop of your registration and you have to move it to get the registration out, i think it would be wise to tell the nice officer

 

[JBP55]

Inform the officer, for your safety and his safety.

 

[charlie12]

I have no problem telling the LEO I have a gun in the car. My question was on his statement about being required to tell them just because I have a permit if I'm in my car.

I've been driving 41 year and have been stopped 3 times all three times I informed the LEO I had a weapon.
All three times were late at light and they were fishing.

The first was a Livingston Deputy, reason was he couldn't read my plate. It's a Army Veteran plate with only 3 numbers and both light were working. (His plate light wasn't)

Next was LSP he couldn't tell what was in the back of my truck. He was very nice.

Last was LPSO unit looking for a shooting suspect. The year model was about 5 yrs. off and the wrong color. The suspect was 5'6" go-tee, and tattoos.( I was listening to the whole thing) I'm 6'5" no go-tee and NO damn tattoos.

 

[LACamper]

I was stopped in Springfield by a local PD for speeding (be careful going to the state park there! They raise/lower the limit a few times just to confuse you. Its like Golden Meadow or Bunkee. Good news is ticket was cheap- $75). He chewed me out for not presenting my permit after he ran my license. I misunderstood the law at the time. I figured I wasn't carrying on me, so no need to bring it up. I'll hand over the permit and license next time but I won't volunteer if there's a gun in the car unless asked.

 

[spanky]

I was stopped in Springfield by a local PD for speeding (be careful going to the state park there! They raise/lower the limit a few times just to confuse you. Its like Golden Meadow or Bunkee. Good news is ticket was cheap- $75). He chewed me out for not presenting my permit after he ran my license. I misunderstood the law at the time. I figured I wasn't carrying on me, so no need to bring it up. I'll hand over the permit and license next time but I won't volunteer if there's a gun in the car unless asked.

I was under the impression that the "duty to inform" was for that of a present weapon on your person and not the mere fact that you have the permit.

In response to the OP, you have a duty to inform if you're carrying on your person if you have a concealed weapons permit, afaik. If it's not on you, you don't have to tell them unless they ask. I'm not a lawyer so take this for what it's worth.

 

[LACamper]

That was my take up until that encounter. He came back to the car pretty ticked that I hadn't told him, so I assume he found out from running my license. Why this upset him is beyond me- I was driving a newish saturn SL1 with a fussing 2 yr old in the back and my wife in the passenger seat. Obviously I was not returning from knocking over a time saver. Anyway, I'll offer it next time, maybe it'll even get me out of the ticket...

 

[charlie12]

I was stopped in Springfield by a local PD for speeding (be careful going to the state park there! They raise/lower the limit a few times just to confuse you. Its like Golden Meadow or Bunkee. Good news is ticket was cheap- $75). He chewed me out for not presenting my permit after he ran my license. I misunderstood the law at the time. I figured I wasn't carrying on me, so no need to bring it up. I'll hand over the permit and license next time but I won't volunteer if there's a gun in the car unless asked.

You should call the State Police Concealed Handgun Permit section and ask them, I think your Springfield guy is full of ****. Some of the guys I've heard in Livingston have been coming from out of state and maybe some are bring the other states laws with them.

 

[charlie12]

I was under the impression that the "duty to inform" was for that of a present weapon on your person and not the mere fact that you have the permit.

In response to the OP, you have a duty to inform if you're carrying on your person if you have a concealed weapons permit, afaik. If it's not on you, you don't have to tell them unless they ask. I'm not a lawyer so take this for what it's worth.

I'm with you Spanky that's what I've been reading for about the last 12 yrs.

I had a friend that worked for Port Vincent PD run my DL one day to check on my permit. After the dispatcher told him that I had no record and no history he asked about a Concealed Handgun Permit, the dispatcher told him she had no way of knowing that. Some don't even know how to read their computer screens.

 

[tmlowe]

http://www.lsp.org/handguns.html#prohibited

Taken from the LSP site



Duties of Permittees
The permit shall be retained by the permittee who shall immediately produce it upon the request of any law enforcement officer. Anyone who fails to do so shall be fined not more than one hundred dollars. Additionally, when any peace officer approaches a permittee in an official manner or with an identified purpose, the permittee shall:

1. Notify the officer that he has a weapon on his person;
2. Submit to a pat down;
3. Allow the officer to temporarily disarm him.


It says nothing about if you are not carrying

 

[charlie12]

I was stopped in Springfield by a local PD for speeding (be careful going to the state park there! They raise/lower the limit a few times just to confuse you. Its like Golden Meadow or Bunkee. Good news is ticket was cheap- $75). He chewed me out for not presenting my permit after he ran my license. I misunderstood the law at the time. I figured I wasn't carrying on me, so no need to bring it up. I'll hand over the permit and license next time but I won't volunteer if there's a gun in the car unless asked.

I just read this from the Lousiana State Police Concealed Handgun Permit Section.

Duties of Permittees
The permit shall be retained by the permittee who shall immediately produce it upon the request of any law enforcement officer. Anyone who fails to do so shall be fined not more than one hundred dollars. Additionally, when any peace officer approaches a permittee in an official manner or with an identified purpose, the permittee shall:

1. Notify the officer that he has a weapon on his person;
2. Submit to a pat down;
3. Allow the officer to temporarily disarm him


Print you out a copy and give it to him next time. I had to print the Seatbelt law to give to a Trooper that didn't know the law.

 

[charlie12]

We posted at the same time but you beat me.

 

[spanky]

http://www.lsp.org/handguns.html#prohibited

Taken from the LSP site



Duties of Permittees
The permit shall be retained by the permittee who shall immediately produce it upon the request of any law enforcement officer. Anyone who fails to do so shall be fined not more than one hundred dollars. Additionally, when any peace officer approaches a permittee in an official manner or with an identified purpose, the permittee shall:

1. Notify the officer that he has a weapon on his person;
2. Submit to a pat down;
3. Allow the officer to temporarily disarm him.


It says nothing about if you are not carrying

The way I interpret that, you do not have a duty to notify unless you are carrying on your person. This means if you are either not carrying or it's not on your person, keep your mouth shut unless a) they ask or b) your gun is in the same compartment as your paperwork. the latter is just to make sure you don't get your ass shot, of course.

 

[tmlowe]

Don't you like to live on the wild side, Spanky?

 

[spanky]

Maybe, just not when I might be on the wrong end of a high speed lead slinging device.

 

[CavalryJim]

Inform the officer, for your safety and his safety.

As an honest citizen, when I am pulled over for a routine traffic stop and happen to have a firearm in my car, I fail to see how informing a LEO would make either one of us safer. At best, the LEO may just thank you for the information and tells you not to touch it. The bad things that could happen include:
• The firearm gets confiscated and you have to ‘prove’ ownership
• The LEO is a nitwit that is not familiar with your firearm and discharges it
• The LEO happens to be NOPD and you never see the gun again
• When the LEO calls in the stop of a person with a gun, all the other LEOs in the area decide to get involved and you have a dozen flashlights pointed at you while questioned about “why do you need a gun?”

In reality, knowing that I have a gun in the car might make the LEO more comfortable (or possibly uncomfortable) but I don’t see how a LEO’s comfort level has any bearing on my rights. Either way, I view every moment of being detained is an inconvenience and, without lying, I plan on only giving information that will shorten the experience.

 

[JadeRaven]

Damn right.

They don't need to know unless it's on top of my registration (and it's not).

And I'll add another "NOPD sucks."

 

[charlie12]

I was under the impression that the "duty to inform" was for that of a present weapon on your person and not the mere fact that you have the permit.

In response to the OP, you have a duty to inform if you're carrying on your person if you have a concealed weapons permit, afaik. If it's not on you, you don't have to tell them unless they ask. I'm not a lawyer so take this for what it's worth.

Spanky that's what I read too. It doesn't say anything about telling them you have a permit if you're not carrying a gun. I think the Springfield LEO was out of line and didn't know the law.

Again I have no problem telling them if I have a gun in the car but getting stupid just because I have a permit is crazy. I have a library card but if I'm not checking out books I don't show it to the librarian.