CC in preschool

[Bearco]

I work in preschools sometimes and I am not sure on this issue. A preschool/daycare does not appear to fall under a Firearm-free zone according to RS 14:95.6. Does anyone know more on this issue?

A. A "firearm-free zone" is an area inclusive of any school campus and within one thousand feet of any such school campus, and within a school bus.
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C. For purposes of this Section:
(1) "School" means any public or private elementary, secondary, high school, or vocational-technical school, college, or university in this state.
(2) "School campus" means all facilities and property within the boundary of the school property.
(3) "School bus" means any motor bus being used to transport children to and from school or in connection with school activities.

 

[CavalryJim]

I've looked also and could not find any laws against carrying in a daycare or preschool. Just keep it concealed and it will never be an issue.

 

[Nick]

the topic has come up here before, the agency that licenses daycares stipulates that they must post their premises for no firearms, which would make it a posted place, which would make it illegal to carry....

 

[Nick]

here's the thread with the info:
http://www.bayoushooter.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2541

although guns aren't forbidden in criminal code, the daycare facility must post to be in compliance, therefore either they are in violation of their license or you just didn't see the sign.

 

[Bearco]

Thanks for the info, from the other thread, I looked up the document and it is stated clearly in the regulations for a Class A school.

M. The provider shall prohibit the use of alcohol, tobacco, and the use or possession of illegal substances or unauthorized potentially toxic substances, fireworks, firearms, pellet or BB guns (loaded or unloaded) on the child care premises. This notice shall be posted.

 

[dawg23]

Thanks for the info, from the other thread, I looked up the document and it is stated clearly in the regulations for a Class A school.

M. The provider shall prohibit the use of alcohol, tobacco, and the use or possession of illegal substances or unauthorized potentially toxic substances, fireworks, firearms, pellet or BB guns (loaded or unloaded) on the child care premises. This notice shall be posted.

That's only fair. We don't want those pre-schoolers dipping or chewing while they shoot their BB guns.

 

[CavalryJim]

Some agency's policy does not = law.

The daycare/preschool my yungins' attend does not have a sign that I have ever seen....not that I've ever particularly looked (or asked) for it.

Keep it concealed, act normal, and go about your business.

 

[LACamper]

So the 1000' rule applies to daycares also???? That would make it almost impossible to CC!

 

[Calhoun123]

I'm just seeing this thread. The class a facilities are required to post the prohibited items in a conspicuous place in order to comply with regulations which were generated by state law. IIRC, if they post it, it carries the force of law - period. It is therefore a prohibited place. The 1000 foot rule probably doesn't apply as it is not a "school", just a day care.

 

[vsound]

For starters, the policy says "unauthorized.....firearms,.....". If you are authorized by virtue of a CHP, then you are not in violation of the policy. Second, if you work there, even if they consider it a school, there is an exemption for an "employee acting in the normal course of their duties". IANAL, but I would say just make sure it stays concealed and don't worry about it.

 

[Nick]

For starters, the policy says "unauthorized.....firearms,.....". If you are authorized by virtue of a CHP, then you are not in violation of the policy. Second, if you work there, even if they consider it a school, there is an exemption for an "employee acting in the normal course of their duties". IANAL, but I would say just make sure it stays concealed and don't worry about it.

and that advice will get you a ride to jail real quick....

"by virtue of a CHP" your permit is also VOID when the property is posted you must respect that and not carry period. The daycare must post in order to be in compliance with their regulations. THEREFORE your permit in theory will never be effective at a Class A Daycare facility. POSTED IS POSTED

 

[LouisianaCarry]

Nick has a correct understanding of the law.

For starters, the policy says "unauthorized.....firearms,.....". If you are authorized by virtue of a CHP, then you are not in violation of the policy.

Sans a clearer definition, this likely means on Duty LEOs.

If you are authorized by virtue of a CHP, then you are not in violation of the policy.

A CHP only authorizes you to carry a weapon concealed where otherwise legal. If you are in a prohibited place, your CHP is non-authoritative.

Second, if you work there, even if they consider it a school, there is an exemption for an "employee acting in the normal course of their duties".

Normal scope of duties= ROTC instructor, etc. Teaching or watching kids does not encompass packing as a part of their 'normal scope.'

IANAL, but I would say just make sure it stays concealed and don't worry about it.

That is a risk that each person must assess for themselves, but understand that it is a risk of at least a RS 14:95 charge, which carries a 6 month/$500 penalty.

 

[vsound]

Sans a clearer definition, this likely means on Duty LEOs.

If it means Duty LEOs only, it would say so in the definition.

A CHP only authorizes you to carry a weapon concealed where otherwise legal. If you are in a prohibited place, your CHP is non-authoritative.

It's in the wording. They haven't turned it into a prohibited place by saying no "unauthorized" firearms. If they said flat out "no firearms", then it would be a prohibited place. If, without any posting, you are authorized by law, then a posting describing "unauthorized" items doesn't apply.

Normal scope of duties= ROTC instructor, etc. Teaching or watching kids does not encompass packing as a part of their 'normal scope.'

Not defined in the law. The law only says "an employee or school official acting in the normal course of their duties". Nowhere does it define that those duties would, should, or do require the use of a firearm. LEOs are defined in the paragraph above, so it's not a reference to LEOs either.

That is a risk that each person must assess for themselves, but understand that it is a risk of at least a RS 14:95 charge, which carries a 6 month/$500 penalty.

Agreed. That's why I specify that IANAL. Use the information at your own risk, and all should know the risks.

 

[LouisianaCarry]

I sincerely hope that argument would create a "reasonable doubt" for you, if it ever came to a head.

I am just saying that it would surprise me if your interpretation would be the interpretation of the Court.

 

[Calhoun123]

The posted regulation's statement is a blanket prohibition on firearms. The mention of unauthorized is in regard to toxic substances. Without saying more, I can tell you I have 1st hand knowledge of this. There is no issue to debate. It is cut and dried.

 

[SimonJester308]

To bad no one could start a daycare center that allowed firearms carry by their staff, concealed preferably. Or could they? Good morning, BayouShooters DayCare.

 

[LouisianaCarry]

It is Class "A" daycares that have to be posted.

 

[vsound]

The posted regulation's statement is a blanket prohibition on firearms. The mention of unauthorized is in regard to toxic substances. Without saying more, I can tell you I have 1st hand knowledge of this. There is no issue to debate. It is cut and dried.

If the law were "cut and dried", there'd be no need for lawyers.

Do you have a ciatation for a court case that sets a precedent?

Given a hypothetical situation that a person is otherwise legal to carry and the daycare is a private business, if that person were to get caught carrying at a daycare with the posted policy, what statute would they be charged with violating?

 

[Nick]

Given a hypothetical situation that a person is otherwise legal to carry and the daycare is a private business, if that person were to get caught carrying at a daycare with the posted policy, what statute would they be charged with violating?

the last paragraph of R.S. 40:1379.3 (N)states it clearly:

The provisions of R.S. 40:1379.3 (N) shall not limit the right of a property owner, lessee, or other lawful custodian to prohibit or restrict access of those persons possessing a concealed handgun pursuant to a permit issued under this Section. No individual to whom a concealed handgun permit is issued may carry such concealed handgun into the private residence of another without first receiving the consent of that person.

click the following link, go down to the Prohibited Locations section, and you can re-read that same paragraph in it's full context if you'd like.
http://www.lsp.org/handguns.html

1.) by hanging the signs, the daycare facility has posted their property.
2.) as a concealed handgun permit holder you have explicitly agreed to respect those signs as prescribed in the provision listed above.

if you choose not to follow those the will of the posted signs you have broken your contract with the state which was a requirement to have the permit, at that point the permit is in violation and void. Although I can't confirm exactly what you may be charged with or convicted of, I would imagine it would be something along the lines of illegal carrying of a firearm and possession of a firearm in a prohibited place. I do not know the exact statues of those charges nor will I look them up for you, however if you are too lazy to look them up yourself I'm sure if you would volunteer to be arrested at a daycare facility for that type of offense that the L.E.O. would happily look that up for you along with writing it down on a nice piece of paper which will entitle you to the benefit of going before a judge where they will more than happily explain the law to you, and they'll even make you fully aware of what penalties go along with violation of those laws.

 

[vsound]

...... Although I can't confirm exactly what you may be charged with or convicted of, I would imagine......

Therein lies my point. There is no direct statutory penalty linked to section O of 40:1379.3. Plus, that only applies to concealed carry. What about open carry? What would someone be charged with if they ignored (or didn't see) the posted policy and entered while open carrying?

Also, what about the issue of due notice? How does the policy have to be posted? Is it a big crossed-through red sign on the door, or is it a small print document hanging amongst others on a bulletin board?

This is just my layman's opinion, but I suspect the only thing they could do is ask you to leave, and/or ask you not to return while carrying. If you ignored them after that and entered anyway while carrying, you could get charged with trespassing. Don't get me wrong, I don't intend to test the theory, but I think it's worthy of debate here.