Cliven Bundy Cattle Rancher Situation

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  • mprice

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    Mar 16, 2009
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    First of all, I have enjoyed reading this thread - there are many facets to this whole situation that I agree, disagree and, I'm still unsure about. But, many on here have given me a lot to think about.

    About slavery - I think it's pretty treacherous politically to use slavery as an allegory for government dependence - it's kinda like thinking that the "Pirates of the Carribean" at Disneyland is an accurate description of real pirates... I did read recently - "Uncle Sam's Plantation: How Big Government Enslaves America's Poor and What We Can Do About It" by Star Parker (an interesting person / author / critic in her own right). The way she uses "slavery" is certainly not an endorsement of real slavery but, as a literary device to explain her social criticism of poverty. [of note: One yardstick I use to measure social criticism i read is my liberal, University Professor, wife - re: Star Parker makes Dr. Price's hair burst into flames and she gets a look on her face not unlike "oleheat's" cow above (great pic!!).] As I said before, to use "slavery" as an example of govt dependence is tenuous (dangerous) at best because what we, as conservatives, say and do is so easily falsely interpreted by liberals. And, as someone just said, it would have been so much better for Mr Bundy to have spoken thru a legal advocate. I just can't understand why he felt he had to do that!?

    In other words, WORDS ARE POWERFUL, as a weapon and a weakness.

    Marc Price
    Breaux Bridge, LA
     
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    Jack

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    NOT NO BUT HELL NO!, but you seem to justifying that since their ancestors were slaves then getting free government stuff OK, it's what they expect. Maybe I am not getting what you are trying to say because of how you are saying it.

    I'm saying the opposite of that. I'm saying that they have more freedom today and as such they have more of an opportunity to succeed an their failures are more theirs than in any time in the last 500 years. I do feel that welfare is oppressing and seeing everyone around them being useless puts a person at a disadvantage, that disadvantage isn't anywhere near the same disadvantage or stripping of freedoms as being a slave. Yeah, welfare is a trap, but it is a lot earlier to get off welfare than get out of shackles.
     

    buttanic

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    I'm saying the opposite of that. I'm saying that they have more freedom today and as such they have more of an opportunity to succeed an their failures are more theirs than in any time in the last 500 years. I do feel that welfare is oppressing and seeing everyone around them being useless puts a person at a disadvantage, that disadvantage isn't anywhere near the same disadvantage or stripping of freedoms as being a slave. Yeah, welfare is a trap, but it is a lot earlier to get off welfare than get out of shackles.

    Agree, it's just that government acts as a disincentive for people to get off of welfare with the way it is administered. In workfare at least those receiving benefits have some skin in the game and if they are capable of working or training and chose not to then the benefits are cut.
     
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    Jack

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    That is right, but that disincentive doesn't strip them of their freedom of choice. It makes success and change more difficult, but it doesn't remove the possibility. I think that welfare should be slowly cut and limits be put into place for new recipients, but I don't see it as being a greater restriction on freedom than slavery, in any way.
     

    tim9lives

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    I'll say it again. The problem with most welfare is that monetary rewards are greater when the family unit is broken. Single mother with no man in the house equals a reward.

    Get married with an intact family unit...penalized. That's at the heart of the issue. A working man is not in the household so there is no example for the children of normal behavior.

    Its a broken system which rewards broken families.

    Anyway...kind of funny video below.

    Stephen Colbert sings “The Ballad of Cliven Bundy”: “His land belongs to you and me, that’s what he told Sean Hannity”


    [video]http://www.hulu.com/watch/627025[/video]
     

    Fred_G

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    Slavery is wrong, I am sure we can all agree on that. But, when people are dependent on the gubment for food and shelter, they are not independent. When you can net more by not working and taking money from Santa, as opposed to actually working, something is wrong.

    6Train up a child in the way he should go, Even when he is old he will not depart from it. 7The rich rules over the poor, And the borrower becomes the lender's slave. 8
    http://biblehub.com/proverbs/22-7.htm

    Just a quick Google search for the Bible quote I was thinking of. If the borrower is save to the lender, then what is the person who lives off the gubment, with no requirement to pay it back? Are they bad people, no, are they independent? No. I am curious how they define freedom.

    Would people beholden to England for food and shelter fought for our independence back in the day? What evil has the 'war on poverty' wrought? Additionally, would people dependent on the gubment fight for the 1A, 2A, or any other rights? Especially if their food and shelter could be taken away if they fight?

    No, not really slaves, but not independent.
     
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    Vermiform

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    http://ftf-comics.com/?comic=checkpoints

    iwx6ufbji6rrmdxaw61t.jpg
     

    madwabbit

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    Oprah can't own a basketball team. I'll bet she can't hit a free throw in ten shots.

    I'll also bet she can't run the length of the court twice without needing medical attention.
     

    Jack

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    I don't know what is funnier, that the crazies were getting ready to shoot it out with each other, or that the disagreement started over them thinking that Eric Holder was going to use a drone strike on them.
     

    oleheat

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    Drone strike?

    Ok, that's a little ridiculous.

    We all have our gripes- but we aren't Syria. LOL
     

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