Do you think private gun sales should go through a FFL?

[SpartanSoul]

Odds of selling to a mass killer is half a billiin to one or something like that. I know whatching the news you would think its more common. Has anyone ever been succesfully prosecuted for selling a gun to a mass murderer?

Yes it is small but the same problem is present with any firearm used in any crime.

It doesn't matter about prosecution, there is the civil side also. It also doesnt matter if the action is "successful". Sometimes they just want to bankrupt an individual or company.

The fact is many people have assets like a home etc. and they need to protect them. It doesn't matter you are negligent or not. All it takes to ruin your family's future is a civil suit that costs a fortune to defend. It doesn't even matter if you win, you are still ruined. Going through an FFL at least lets you say "I did everything I could". It still might not help but it is the best you can do.

 

[Bam Bam]

I do, why is it any of my Business who they are, or why they want it…

When you sell a car do you ask them and make sure that they’re not gonna exceed the speed limit or make sure they wear a seatbelt…. Naaa none of my business LOL

Exactly!!!!

 

[hotbiggun]

It seems as a seller, you do not want to ask for any documentation. How are you able to verify the buyer is of age and a citizen of the state without any documentation?

It's difficult to know with certainty the buyer is not a criminal. But the buyer knowing you will have his information would certainly deter a number of criminals.

Now going through an FFL may be overkill. Having said that, I did sell my ex-wife a handgun and we went through an FFL. We were still cordial at the time but she was an ex for a reason.

If the buyer looks too young i would ask to see their ID otherwise its on them to follow the law. Im not a LEO.

 

[flamatrix99]

No kidding. Im not doing any extra documentation not required by law.

Bought and sold many firearms and never asked for a BOS. What's the point?

 

[thperez1972]

If the buyer looks too young i would ask to see their ID otherwise its on them to follow the law. Im not a LEO.

You failed to address verifying the state of residence.

 

[hotbiggun]

Yes it is small but the same problem is present with any firearm used in any crime.

It doesn't matter about prosecution, there is the civil side also. It also doesnt matter if the action is "successful". Sometimes they just want to bankrupt an individual or company.

The fact is many people have assets like a home etc. and they need to protect them. It doesn't matter you are negligent or not. All it takes to ruin your family's future is a civil suit that costs a fortune to defend. It doesn't even matter if you win, you are still ruined. Going through an FFL at least lets you say "I did everything I could". It still might not help but it is the best you can do.

Im not arguing with you about the civil lawsuit because i dont know but i wonder if that is a concern? I mean since when am i responsible for the actions of another man?

 

[thperez1972]

Bought and sold many firearms and never asked for a BOS. What's the point?

Your question has been answered multiple ways throughout this thread. You may not agree with those answers but it's disingenuous to now ask what is the point.

 

[hotbiggun]

Bought and sold many firearms and never asked for a BOS. What's the point?

My point is a seller doesnt need a BOS from a buyer and should not ask for one.

 

[thperez1972]

Im not arguing with you about the civil lawsuit because i dont know but i wonder if that is a concern? I mean since when am i responsible for the actions of another man?

When there are obvious signs that not caring about the actions of the other person could rise to the level of criminal negligence?

RS 14:12 Criminal negligence
Criminal negligence exists when, although neither specific nor general criminal intent is present, there is such disregard of the interest of others that the offender's conduct amounts to a gross deviation below the standard of care expected to be maintained by a reasonably careful man under like circumstances.

 

[hotbiggun]

When there are obvious signs that not caring about the actions of the other person could rise to the level of criminal negligence?

RS 14:12 Criminal negligence
Criminal negligence exists when, although neither specific nor general criminal intent is present, there is such disregard of the interest of others that the offender's conduct amounts to a gross deviation below the standard of care expected to be maintained by a reasonably careful man under like circumstances.

Yeah thats why the left would like to change the law to sue gun manufacturers.

 

[thperez1972]

My point is a seller doesnt need a BOS from a buyer and should not ask for one.

Not legally. But it's good practice. And in most cases, the seller doesn't get one from the buyer. The seller usually has 2 copies and keeps one for his records.

Let's look at this from another angle. What harm, either legally or civilly, can come from the buyer and seller having a bill of sale.

 

[SpartanSoul]

Im not arguing with you about the civil lawsuit because i dont know but i wonder if that is a concern? I mean since when am i responsible for the actions of another man?

I agree with you on the principle but was responding to why people go "above and beyond" in today's world. I think we should still be able to mail order Thompsons for $20 but today the world is a mess and you have to protect yourself the best you can.

The truth is you can be sued by practically anyone for practically anything. Even if it is ridiculous it will cost money to defend even if you win. Sometimes the goal isn't to win but to bleed you dry. The more assets you have the better target you are and the more protection you need.

 

[thperez1972]

Yeah thats why the left would like to change the law to sue gun manufacturers.

Apples and oranges. False equivalence. Next.

 

[krotsman]

My point is a seller doesnt need a BOS from a buyer and should not ask for one.

Need is a relative term in this conversation. You are not legally required to do a BOS, but you may need it, down the road, to prove that you are no longer the owner of a firearm that was used in the commission of a crime.

I think Plato said it best: Better to have a BOS and not need it than to need a BOS and not have it

Or maybe that was lube?

 

[hkump]

The reason a seller would want a BOS is in case the weapon becomes evidence in a crime, and seller's name is somehow associated with it. It's nice to point authorities to the guy who bought it.

Yes, this is the reason. A bill of sale protects both the buyer and the seller. I sold a gun a few years ago on here to a member who then later on sold it to someone else. I was the original owner, so when the gun ended up in a criminal case/homicide, the Jefferson Parish Homicide unit called me asking about the gun since it was connected to me as the original buyer. I showed them the bill of sale and they went on their way to the next guy. Bill of sale protects both parties.

 

[Boomer51]

I don't believe private gun sales should go through a FFL.
If you don't want to show ID or use a bill of sale when you buy a gun from me, then don't buy it.

 

[highstandard40]

Boomer, my position as well.

 

[Fordfella]

I ask because lots of ads here ask for more than the law requires. Why would anyone selling a firearm via private sale require documentation from the buyer? Is it just me or is that crazy?


Edit to ad: your used firearms are not worth more than new firearms.FFS

I have bought guns at auctions, flea markets, roadside stands, yard/garage sales, from co-workers, and any number of other places. I have never asked/been asked for a bill of sale, or to go through an FFL! The exception was the auctioneer that was an FFL.

 

[MetalVendor]

These new ATF tactics are getting pretty silly…

 

[DBMJR1]

My point is a seller doesnt need a BOS from a buyer and should not ask for one.

Now you are sounding just like a Democrat. You are telling other people what they should or should not do with their property.

It's this simple. If a seller lists an item and offends you by requiring a bill of sale. Move on.

Don't argue. Don't make multiple posts trying to defend an indefensible position. Just move on.

Preferably, quietly.

But for Christ's sake, stop trying to act the libertarian while demanding others do things YOUR way.