Don't overlook air rifles in you BOB

[JNieman]

wow! this is really getting carried away quickly. The bottle is to carry the pellets, provided you let them retreat is under the presumption you control all conditions of the battle. As far as not following laws, I was referring to tresspassing, hunting liscences, water rights, etc. I said nothing about murder and extortion. Thats where the moral compass part comes in to play. You seem to be very aggressive and defensive with your posts and I do not understand why, we are having a discussion about practicality of air rifle Vs. other choices and rather than debate facts, you extract made up information from my statements to make a rebutal. In psychology that is known as a Distractionary Argument and is typically utilized when one does not have any factual ground to stand on. But I am just some Rambo Fanatic so what do I know.

It's worth noting I'm speaking on generalities and about the ideas as much as I am addressing you specifically. I'm not really interested in you or your personal character so much as the idea/situation we're discussing.

 

[AustinBR]

I would like to chime in a little. An air rifle (specifically a .22) is a great tool to have just like any tool. I think everyone should have one. If you have a critter in your back yard and you do not want said critter in your back yard, an air rifle would fix that problem quickly. Compared to a .22 short, a .22 air rifle is "better" in my opinion because it will have roughly the same knockdown power under 100 yards and will be much quieter in the process. In addition, the air rifle would allow you to keep much more "ammo" stored up in a much smaller area. An air rifle will suffice for a majority of the shooting needs one would need in a "living off the land" situation. Now, if I have a choice of air rifle or hunting rifle (or AR-style rifle), I am going to choose the one with more power. Overkill is always better than not having enough.

If I ever had to "bug-out", which I likely would not do anyway, my first choice would be to bring all of our cars and to fill them up with all the amenities of home. If I had to go car-less, which once again probably wouldn't happen as I am much more inclined to stay at home no matter what, I would see if someone could bring an air-rifle while the majority of us took pistols and other gunpowder driven rifles. An air-rifle could be extremely useful in some circumstances and exceptionally useless in others - but I would rather have it available than not.

So my pros / cons:
Pros: Light, Quiet, Very easy to keep lots of ammo, can take down small game under 100 yards, could 'convince' people not to come near under 125 yds,
Cons: Not enough power for big game / two-legged problems, distance is very limited, choice of gun vs air rifle - gun wins, harder to fix if it breaks

 

[JNieman]

Yea, the other point is that if I'm having to go nomadic, and carry everything to live on off of my back... the last thing I want to haul around is a gun for every niche, and if I'm in such a dire situation, I sure as heck want my defensive weapons on me. A firearm that can be used for a multitude of situations is going to be better than a niche weapon that's just extra weight.

If your focus is in small animals, maybe you should focus more on snaring skills, as it's the most economical fashion for small game harvesting when ounces lead to pounds and pounds lead to pain.

 

[Vermiform]

Yea, the other point is that if I'm having to go nomadic, and carry everything to live on off of my back... the last thing I want to haul around is a gun for every niche, and if I'm in such a dire situation, I sure as heck want my defensive weapons on me. A firearm that can be used for a multitude of situations is going to be better than a niche weapon that's just extra weight.

If your focus is in small animals, maybe you should focus more on snaring skills, as it's the most economical fashion for small game harvesting when ounces lead to pounds and pounds lead to pain.

Good point on snares, definitely more economical weight wise, energy expended and probably much more bountiful. It would take some time to learn the skill though.

 

[JNieman]

Good point on snares, definitely more economical weight wise, energy expended and probably much more bountiful. It would take some time to learn the skill though.

Yea, most people are more interested in buying their survival than learning to do it :P

I don't know jack **** about snaring other than having had some people show me, and having them show me their success. It hasn't been something I prioritized yet.

 

[bikeandrun56]

I would like to chime in a little. An air rifle (specifically a .22) is a great tool to have just like any tool. I think everyone should have one. If you have a critter in your back yard and you do not want said critter in your back yard, an air rifle would fix that problem quickly. Compared to a .22 short, a .22 air rifle is "better" in my opinion because it will have roughly the same knockdown power under 100 yards and will be much quieter in the process. In addition, the air rifle would allow you to keep much more "ammo" stored up in a much smaller area. An air rifle will suffice for a majority of the shooting needs one would need in a "living off the land" situation. Now, if I have a choice of air rifle or hunting rifle (or AR-style rifle), I am going to choose the one with more power. Overkill is always better than not having enough.

If I ever had to "bug-out", which I likely would not do anyway, my first choice would be to bring all of our cars and to fill them up with all the amenities of home. If I had to go car-less, which once again probably wouldn't happen as I am much more inclined to stay at home no matter what, I would see if someone could bring an air-rifle while the majority of us took pistols and other gunpowder driven rifles. An air-rifle could be extremely useful in some circumstances and exceptionally useless in others - but I would rather have it available than not.

So my pros / cons:
Pros: Light, Quiet, Very easy to keep lots of ammo, can take down small game under 100 yards, could 'convince' people not to come near under 125 yds,
Cons: Not enough power for big game / two-legged problems, distance is very limited, choice of gun vs air rifle - gun wins, harder to fix if it breaks

I agree with all the points you have made completely. The air rifle is not a suplement to all weapons, but a sub for the hunting rifle. I still have a shotgun and a pistol. I have decided against big game, and while I understand having a lot of stand-off between you and a potential attacker is critical, I am banking on my E&E skills to avoid people at distance so I am anticipating my pistol as a last resort will suffice. The main reason I have added this to my kit is for longevity purposes. If it comes to the point I leave my homestead, I need something that will last an extremely long time, at least long enough for me to perfect my trapping skills and get my seed banks growing.

 

[Vermiform]

Yea, most people are more interested in buying their survival than learning to do it :P

Guilty as charged.

I don't know jack **** about snaring other than having had some people show me, and having them show me their success. It hasn't been something I prioritized yet.

I think Tony Nester has a decent book on it. I never got around to buying it though.

 

[Vermiform]

I am banking on my E&E skills to avoid people at distance so I am anticipating my pistol as a last resort will suffice.

How old are your family members and how are their E&E skills?

 

[JNieman]

I think Tony Nester has a decent book on it. I never got around to buying it though.

Yea, I've read a few books and have some reference materials, I just haven't practiced it yet. Honestly it's just not in my game plan as-yet, but it's on the short list of skills I want to get decent with. Right now, none of my plans involve being SOL, on my own, with nothing but a backpack and nowhere to go, as I don't see it being probable enough to worry about right now. When I've mastered hurricanes, floods, civil disturbances, electrical outages, then I'll feel free to begin preparing for the less-and-less likely. I don't find much wisdom in having a plan for TEOTWAWKI if I haven't prepared for the every-year ****. Hell, it took me long-enough to triumph the every-day stuff (debt, savings, retirement, etc) and I still struggle with some of it. Anyways, that's getting pretty far off topic.

 

[bikeandrun56]

Yea, most people are more interested in buying their survival than learning to do it :P

I agree with this, thats why I started blogging and getting involved because I see a lot of sheenanigans out there that you can tell wont work just by looking at it.

I don't know jack **** about snaring other than having had some people show me, and having them show me their success. It hasn't been something I prioritized yet.

I have done some snaring, but am by no measure an expert, thats why i want something with such longevity to get me by until I have mastered that craft

 

[AustinBR]

Yea, the other point is that if I'm having to go nomadic, and carry everything to live on off of my back... the last thing I want to haul around is a gun for every niche, and if I'm in such a dire situation, I sure as heck want my defensive weapons on me. A firearm that can be used for a multitude of situations is going to be better than a niche weapon that's just extra weight.

If your focus is in small animals, maybe you should focus more on snaring skills, as it's the most economical fashion for small game harvesting when ounces lead to pounds and pounds lead to pain.

Agreed. I think it goes back to the tool-bag idea. While some tools may be exceptionally specialized and great at certain tasks, you can get pretty far with a hammer and a set of screwdrivers complemented with a roll or two of duct tape. If I have the means to have an air rifle with me with 10,000 rounds, that will be great. Surly living off the land would be one step easier. I do have a slight problem with that idea though because I do not plan on living off the land and I am not prepared to live off the land. Another problem would be if one of these mystical situations did occur, getting from where I live to "the land" at the moment would be very difficult. All in all, I think an air gun is a great tool and can be used for a lot, but it simply cannot replace a firearm.

On the idea of lightweight, silent, weaponesque tools, what about a slingshot? Smaller range, wide range of projectiles, weighs pretty much nothing, and is as small.

 

[Hattrick 22]

I was thinking sling shot threw the whole thread too... it is very light and they make some fairly accurate ones other than a back up band for it all that would be needed ammunition. Which could be kept in a bottle same as the air gunay not have as much distance as an airgun would be the only downside

Damn slingshot that can shoot 225 yards.....I don't know how accurate one could become but dang that's father than I've shot my .22 rifle. http://www.misdefenseproducts.com/Trumark-FiberOptic-Slingshot-with-Stabilizer-p-18966.html

 

[Hattrick 22]

Actually wouldn't mind looking into a good quality slingshot searching around now the dankung ones look well built..

 

[AustinBR]

I was thinking sling shot threw the whole thread too... it is very light and they make some fairly accurate ones other than a back up band for it all that would be needed ammunition. Which could be kept in a bottle same as the air gunay not have as much distance as an airgun would be the only downside

Damn slingshot that can shoot 225 yards.....I don't know how accurate one could become but dang that's father than I've shot my .22 rifle. http://www.misdefenseproducts.com/Trumark-FiberOptic-Slingshot-with-Stabilizer-p-18966.html

I have that exact model and call ******** on 225 yards. You aren't hitting anything past 50 to 75 yards with it and that's probably pushing it.

 

[Hattrick 22]

I have that exact model and call ******** on 225 yards. You aren't hitting anything past 50 to 75 yards with it and that's probably pushing it.

I didn't think it was feasible either thats what was on the webiste. Can you become accurate with the old school style without all the bells and whistles? I never really had one as a kid but wouldn't mind playing with one now not to mention if i can become efficient enough with one in order for it to be a useful tool.

http://www.dankung.com/emart/custom-made-dankung-slingshot-c-70.html

 

[AustinBR]

I didn't think it was feasible either thats what was on the webiste. Can you become accurate with the old school style without all the bells and whistles? I never really had one as a kid but wouldn't mind playing with one now not to mention if i can become efficient enough with one in order for it to be a useful tool.

http://www.dankung.com/emart/custom-made-dankung-slingshot-c-70.html

Definitely. You can become accurate enough to hit targets <25 yards pretty quickly. I really think that anything above that is pushing it for accuracy. I haven't shot a slingshot without the "bells and whistles" for awhile, but I don't remember them being much less accurate than the one that was linked above. It is kind of like shooting a bow without sights on it, or even a pistol without sights...you can become proficient with it, you just have to practice.

 

[goodburbon]

2' of nylon string, a tire tube and a piece of broomstick handle. I made my own slingshots when I was younger. I'd need practice to get good with one again though.

The point is that all I need to make a slingshot is my survival knife, the other components can be sourced easily.

 

[JNieman]

2' of nylon string, a tire tube and a piece of broomstick handle. I made my own slingshots when I was younger. I'd need practice to get good with one again though.

The point is that all I need to make a slingshot is my survival knife, the other components can be sourced easily.

Making a slingshot by definition is different than making a slingshot that's capable of taking game from positions you're good enough to get without spooking the critters.

 

[mike84z28]

All of those would be nice to have air gun, AR, AK, personally I believe water will be the only thing that matters. Once the clean drinkable water runs out then the S$$T will hit the blades !

 

[hunter5567]

225 yard range doesn't mean 225yard accuracy. 22LR ammo has 1.5 mile range on the box. Doesn't mean you can shoot a squirrel in the head at that range. just point it at a 45 degree angle it may go that far.
How about a blowgun? The .62cal models look promising with good power.
I used to have a .40 Jivaro model in my youth and could hit lizards in the head with it at around 30 feet. Slingshots are powerful as well especially when combined with marbles or lead round balls for ammo.