First test of my 10.2kw Solar array

[OneStory]

Wow!

How long does it take to fully recharge the batteries once they are drained down to ten percent?

 

[geeck]

Solar Panels do degrade over time, pretty slowly though, they have a useful lifespan of 25-30 years. It's a mature technology been around since the 50's. They are still pretty inefficient at converting the sun's energy into electrical power... bout 18-19% for most solar panels.

Discharge and recharge rates depend on the battery technology. I'm using AGM (Absorbed Glass Mat) batteries which have the ability to handle a lot of current fast. You generally never want to drain a battery to less than 20%, matter of fact, AGM batterris will stop discharging around 20%. Draining a battery completely will ruin it quicker than just about anything. As far as recharging my array, it will depend on how much sun you get and how much energy you use for the house which is diverted away from charging batteries. So if I dedicate a good portion of my daily production to charging batteries on a sunny day, I can completely recharge them from an 80% discharge in one day.

Batteries are the reason you generally won't find people willing to build you a battery backed system. There is a lot more complication and expense in the design of the system. Plus most consumers are not willing or able to actively manage the array. It's not that hard, my wife grasp the concept, by the 3rd day of the outage was doing just fine. I have software on a PC that shows power production, power consumption, an relative battery charge. You have to keep an eye to the weather (how much sun to expect), how many hours of peak production left, how much charge the batteries need, and how much power you intend on using during the night. We can deeper discharge our batteries because we don't live off the grid. Our batteries will have to be replaced due to age before they reach their maximum number of recharge cycles. The deeper you discharge a battery the fewer total recharge cycles you get. Someone who lives off grid would probably only discharge their batteries 20%, leaving 80% of the energy in the batteries.

 

[Booseman]

Is there a company that you can recommend? I am seriously interested in getting something like this for my house just to reduce the power that I consume from the line.

How did the "rebates" work for you? I have heard stories about some solar companies keeping the rebates and charging you less upfront, true or false?

 

[geeck]

Is there a company that you can recommend? I am seriously interested in getting something like this for my house just to reduce the power that I consume from the line.

How did the "rebates" work for you? I have heard stories about some solar companies keeping the rebates and charging you less upfront, true or false?

True

I went and got "Solar Certified" to sign off on my own job, just to find out if I signed off on my own job I wouldn't qualify for the tax credits. So I partnered up with a company and did just what you're talking about. I put up the 20% and did the design and installation of the electrical system. They put up the 80% and took the installation tax credits (50% State and 30% Fed) plus 5 years of the "Energy Tax Credits" (yes there is a market to sell "green" energy tax credits)

If you're just looking to lower your energy bill a simple grid-tied system is all you need which almost any solar company will do for you. I talked with a lot of companies because I couldn't find one to do a battery backed system. In the course of talking I would bring up financial options. I made it easy for them because I was doing a lot of the work, which more than made up for the "time value of money" plus they got 5 years of the energy tax credits. Those green energy tax credits are the dirty little secret none of the solar company's are not telling the consumer about... read the fine print.

good thing is if electric rates go through the roof (which they will) you are paying the electric company in KWh instead of U.S. dollars.

 

[Booseman]

True

I went and got "Solar Certified" to sign off on my own job, just to find out if I signed off on my own job I wouldn't qualify for the tax credits. So I partnered up with a company and did just what you're talking about. I put up the 20% and did the design and installation of the electrical system. They put up the 80% and took the installation tax credits (50% State and 30% Fed) plus 5 years of the "Energy Tax Credits" (yes there is a market to sell "green" energy tax credits)

If you're just looking to lower your energy bill a simple grid-tied system is all you need which almost any solar company will do for you. I talked with a lot of companies because I couldn't find one to do a battery backed system. In the course of talking I would bring up financial options. I made it easy for them because I was doing a lot of the work, which more than made up for the "time value of money" plus they got 5 years of the energy tax credits. Those green energy tax credits are the dirty little secret none of the solar company's are not telling the consumer about... read the fine print.

good thing is if electric rates go through the roof (which they will) you are paying the electric company in KWh instead of U.S. dollars.

So just to put this in apples to apples term's.

Your set-up will not only power your house but will provide power when the electric is out as well?

I am talking about an installation that would hopefully reduce my dependency by 50% +/-.

So my set-up should cost considerably less than yours? If you were out of pocket 18k then the total cost of your set-up is in the neighborhood of 93k, correct?

 

[Gus McCrae]

Sweet setup.

 

[returningliberty]

Impressive setup man, I'm jealous. I've got a few questions:
What's your cost per kWh? As energy prices increase, you may break even sooner.
What's your average kWh usage? During peak load what does your house draw?
Did you go all out and design your house for energy efficiency or was this a post construction project?

Why install so far away (400') from your house? I'm assuming you're losing a noticeable chunk of available power from resistance.

 

[geeck]

So just to put this in apples to apples term's.

Your set-up will not only power your house but will provide power when the electric is out as well?

I am talking about an installation that would hopefully reduce my dependency by 50% +/-.

So my set-up should cost considerably less than yours? If you were out of pocket 18k then the total cost of your set-up is in the neighborhood of 93k, correct?

That is about correct, since they filed the paperwork for the tax credits I didn't see what the final numbers were, and some of the 18k was over and above the the scope of the project it's hard to be exact but probably in the ballpark.

A system installed on your roof and only doing a grid-tied sell back will be considerably less expense than what I have sitting 200 ft from my house on a custom built structure able to provide power during an outage.

 

[geeck]

Impressive setup man, I'm jealous. I've got a few questions:
What's your cost per kWh? As energy prices increase, you may break even sooner.
What's your average kWh usage? During peak load what does your house draw?
Did you go all out and design your house for energy efficiency or was this a post construction project?

Why install so far away (400') from your house? I'm assuming you're losing a noticeable chunk of available power from resistance.

I'm on CLECO so I'm paying around .11 cent KWh I think. Yes you are correct if the dollar continues its slide, energy rates are going to increase and I'll be paying with KWh not U.S. Dollars. Which according to the Net Metering agreement in Louisiana is always 1 for 1. If you produce more than you use the power company only has to pay the "cost avoidance" rate of what it cost them, about .3 or .4 cents.

My avg usage is too damn high. After installing the Solar Array, I built 2 detached structures, a guest house/workspace for the wife and a reloading room/workspace for me which I now have to heat & cool. Some months I can get close to zeroing out my bill, I am still fighting with CLECO I think their numbers a wrong.

The house was an older house we bought to be close the the wife's father (she helps him out) It was/is an energy sucking pit. I am in the process of reducing power consumption, just waiting for the weather to break before installing a new central HVAC unit. I'm adding some gas appliances and more insulation in the attic after these other project get done.

The array is only 200 ft from the meter. The sell back to the grid is at 240 VAC, the voltage drop is not bad at all. The DC voltage components are all located directly under the solar panels.

I still draw more power at peak than what my array can provide. We have to turn off some things to run others during peak sun hours. At night things are pretty limited... forget about running a standard AC. Fans, refrigerator, lights (within reason), TV, internet and microwave are good to go at night .

 

[todbnla]

Very nice, hope you didnt get wet w/Isaac? Slidell has quite a few homes w/solar arrays now. I live north and want to add them too some day, on the ground like you did. Great Job.

 

[geeck]

Very nice, hope you didnt get wet w/Isaac? Slidell has quite a few homes w/solar arrays now. I live north and want to add them too some day, on the ground like you did. Great Job.

We had a little water in an out building, not in the house. I had to pull out the laminate flooring, but nothing major. I'm going to replace it with something a little more water resistant.

 

[lsu fan]

The hardest part for me was putting up with all the sandal wearing hippies stopping during construction wanting to hug me for saving the planet... beleive me, I'm no tree hugger.

 

[turboneal]

True

I went and got "Solar Certified" to sign off on my own job, just to find out if I signed off on my own job I wouldn't qualify for the tax credits. So I partnered up with a company and did just what you're talking about. I put up the 20% and did the design and installation of the electrical system. They put up the 80% and took the installation tax credits (50% State and 30% Fed) plus 5 years of the "Energy Tax Credits" (yes there is a market to sell "green" energy tax credits)

If you're just looking to lower your energy bill a simple grid-tied system is all you need which almost any solar company will do for you. I talked with a lot of companies because I couldn't find one to do a battery backed system. In the course of talking I would bring up financial options. I made it easy for them because I was doing a lot of the work, which more than made up for the "time value of money" plus they got 5 years of the energy tax credits. Those green energy tax credits are the dirty little secret none of the solar company's are not telling the consumer about... read the fine print.

good thing is if electric rates go through the roof (which they will) you are paying the electric company in KWh instead of U.S. dollars.

Ok, here is the part I don't understand: I am working in Afghanistan and get a big tax exemption for staying out of the country 335 or so days. So will I just have 50% (state) plus 30% federal tax credit on my TAXABLE income? If so, it's not really worth it to me... If I make 140k, and 96k is exempt, I'm paying taxes on 44k. Let's say that's 9k in taxes. If I get 80% OF THAT back, that's only 7k. I think the cheapest home system is like 25k right? I'd still be out of pocket 18 grand...

Or am I looking at this wrong? If they pay 80% of the cost of the system then I'd only be out 5 grand...

So, which is it?

Thanks for your help.
-Neal

 

[geeck]

Ok, here is the part I don't understand: I am working in Afghanistan and get a big tax exemption for staying out of the country 335 or so days. So will I just have 50% (state) plus 30% federal tax credit on my TAXABLE income? If so, it's not really worth it to me... If I make 140k, and 96k is exempt, I'm paying taxes on 44k. Let's say that's 9k in taxes. If I get 80% OF THAT back, that's only 7k. I think the cheapest home system is like 25k right? I'd still be out of pocket 18 grand...

Or am I looking at this wrong? If they pay 80% of the cost of the system then I'd only be out 5 grand...

So, which is it?

Thanks for your help.
-Neal

The 50% Louisiana State "Credit" they just cut you a check for the full amount. The 30% Federal tax credit you take off your federal taxes. You can file an amended return for previous years taxes and get your money back.

 

[Booseman]

The 50% Louisiana State "Credit" they just cut you a check for the full amount. The 30% Federal tax credit you take off your federal taxes. You can file an amended return for previous years taxes and get your money back.

So the state of Louisiana is going to cut me a check for half of the cost of the total installation?

So, if the total cost is $20,000 I am going to get a check form Louisiana for $10,000?

But from the fed side I am only going to get a "credit" of 30% of my total Federal taxes due for the year?
Example, I owe a total of $10,000 for the year I am only going to get $3,000 in "credit"?

I am just trying to get all my t's crossed and i's dotted.

Sorry for asking so many questions.

 

[geeck]

So the state of Louisiana is going to cut me a check for half of the cost of the total installation?

So, if the total cost is $20,000 I am going to get a check form Louisiana for $10,000?

But from the fed side I am only going to get a "credit" of 30% of my total Federal taxes due for the year?
Example, I owe a total of $10,000 for the year I am only going to get $3,000 in "credit"?

I am just trying to get all my t's crossed and i's dotted.

Sorry for asking so many questions.

You'll have to ask your CPA or Tax man ... I'm a technical guy and did mine a little different than most just so I didn't have to deal with the government directly. There are dozens of ways "creative ways" to get this done. Federal tax credit can be carried forward to subsequent years. A good website to reference for tax credit questions is http://www.dsireusa.org/

 

[Leonidas]

I pass your place frequently. The array has been in place for over a year hasn't it?

What I don't grasp, if you're still on the grid, why the battery bank vs. a two way meter. Then you get net billing/credit and a lot less management effort? I'm sure I have missed some important info, just don't know what I don't know.

 

[geeck]

I pass your place frequently. The array has been in place for over a year hasn't it?

What I don't grasp, if you're still on the grid, why the battery bank vs. a two way meter. Then you get net billing/credit and a lot less management effort? I'm sure I have missed some important info, just don't know what I don't know.

Sure a lot less management.... However without the batteries when the grid is down you have a fancy lawn ornament. My system is a hybrid system capable of working completely off grid or doing a grid-tied sell-back. The majority of the systems out there will not produce electricity when the grid is down. Why I did it dunno... maybe months without power and chasing gasoline after Katrina screwed me up in the head. I could run for years if I had too without the grid or gas. I've maintained equipment far more complex than this most of my life, and I actually enjoy it.

almost 2 years now the array has been up and running.

 

[Leonidas]

......... The majority of the systems out there will not produce electricity when the grid is down........

Aha. That is what I did not know, and now I understand your decision perfectly. Thank you.