Guys using the sig arm brace really need to read this.

[SMR412]

Here is what I don't get...
If they are implying that improper use changes the classification, and they say a pistol is designed to be used with ONE hand, where does that leave everyone using a pistol with two hands?!?!
Does cheek welding (not shouldering) an AR pistol buffer tube, without Sig brace, change it's classification?
What about hip firing a rifle? Turning rifle 45 degrees to use offset sights? This could go on and on....
I just don't get their logic.

 

[madwabbit]

Here is what I don't get...
If they are implying that improper use changes the classification, and they say a pistol is designed to be used with ONE hand, where does that leave everyone using a pistol with two hands?!?!
Does cheek welding (not shouldering) an AR pistol buffer tube, without Sig brace, change it's classification?
What about hip firing a rifle? Turning rifle 45 degrees to use offset sights? This could go on and on....
I just don't get their logic.

trying to understand their logic is like trying to smell the color 9.

 

[Vermiform]

Here is what I don't get...
If they are implying that improper use changes the classification, and they say a pistol is designed to be used with ONE hand, where does that leave everyone using a pistol with two hands?!?!
Does cheek welding (not shouldering) an AR pistol buffer tube, without Sig brace, change it's classification?
What about hip firing a rifle? Turning rifle 45 degrees to use offset sights? This could go on and on....
I just don't get their logic.

Well, they aren't saying that. They are saying that if you are intending to make a pistol then it is a pistol. Shoot it off your shoulder, your forehead or your elbow for all anyone cares. What you do with it is your business. On the other hand, if your intent is
to make a short barrel rifle using the Sig brace, AND you tell them that in writing, then you have go through the proper laws regarding NFA items.

For once....AND ONLY ONCE.....I have to say it, the ATF is blameless in this case. They are following the law.

 

[madwabbit]

Well, they aren't saying that. They are saying that if you are intending to make a pistol then it is a pistol. Shoot it off your shoulder, your forehead or your elbow for all anyone cares. What you do with it is your business. On the other hand, if your intent is
to make a short barrel rifle using the Sig brace, AND you tell them that in writing, then you have go through the proper laws regarding NFA items.

For once....AND ONLY ONCE.....I have to say it, the ATF is blameless in this case. They are following the law.

maybe I interpreted his post differently- but I took it as: gun ABC is legal. If i shoot it from my shoulder its illegal. if I put this 15.00 grip on it, its illegal. if I SAY im doing either, I have to pay more money for a gun I already own... what the f.

In all fairness, it might be annoyingly stupid, but it is the law.

 

[323MAR]

That is the way it was explained in a letter to the person who outed himself to ATF. The person who basically asked the ATF if he could make an unregistered SBR(ask a stupid question.......) The letter was intended to explain it to one person; not everyone else. This was not a reversal. Nothing really changed. You can still put the brace on a pistol. But you are not allowed to market it as an SBR.

 

[madwabbit]

That is the way it was explained in a letter to the person who outed himself to ATF. The person who basically asked the ATF if he could make an unregistered SBR(ask a stupid question.......) The letter was intended to explain it to one person; not everyone else. This was not a reversal. Nothing really changed. You can still put the brace on a pistol. But you are not allowed to market it as an SBR.

thats my understanding as well. if people would stop calling it "the loophole" when they sell it/buy it, this would all just go away.

 

[Pas Tout La]

thats my understanding as well. if people would stop calling it "the loophole" when they sell it/buy it, this would all just go away.

People feel like they are getting one over on the government. They'll brag about it until they shoot themselves in the foot.

I have a question to those out there who teach classes: If Joe shows up to your carbine course with an AR pistol equipped with a Sig brace and proceedes to use it as an SBR for the class, what would you do? Look past it, or tell him to put it away?

 

[Vermiform]

maybe I interpreted his post differently- but I took it as: gun ABC is legal. If i shoot it from my shoulder its illegal. if I put this 15.00 grip on it, its illegal. if I SAY im doing either, I have to pay more money for a gun I already own... what the f.

In all fairness, it might be annoyingly stupid, but it is the law.

I was going by this from the article

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2014/12/foghorn/calm-pistol-brace-ruling-hasnt-changed/[/QUOTE]

this paragraph:

A little later, a letter came out from a police officer asking what they should do if they see someone using the pistol brace in a manner other than the way it was intended — if a firearm that is designed and intended to be used with one hand changes classification when used improperly. The answer was from the ATF was no, since the firearm was intended to be used as a pistol it is indeed a pistol no matter how the end user actually uses it. The same goes for individual manufacturers (those building an AR in their basement from parts). If they intend to build a pistol then a pistol they have built.
The issue apparently with this most recent letter is that the person writing it didn’t understand this nuanced point of law and basically outed himself to the ATF. It appears that he tipped his hand, telling them what he really wanted was a short barreled rifle, and was intending to build the firearm for that purpose.

 

[madwabbit]

People feel like they are getting one over on the government. They'll brag about it until they shoot themselves in the foot.

I have a question to those out there who teach classes: If Joe shows up to your carbine course with an AR pistol equipped with a Sig brace and proceedes to use it as an SBR for the class, what would you do? Look past it, or tell him to put it away?

If he had a problem I'd tell him its none of his MF business. Most good instructors are not in the business of regulating your firearms- I'd be shocked to even hear a story that this occurred.

I mean, have you ever been asked if you have a concealed permit? A stamp? ID'd to verify over 21? They are in the business of providing training and information, and good instructors won't have time to play double-agent batman for the ATF.

 

[kingfhb]

People feel like they are getting one over on the government. They'll brag about it until they shoot themselves in the foot.

I have a question to those out there who teach classes: If Joe shows up to your carbine course with an AR pistol equipped with a Sig brace and proceedes to use it as an SBR for the class, what would you do? Look past it, or tell him to put it away?

Why is this even a question? Since when are instructors an extension of the ATF? Range officers of course have the option to tell you to put any firearm away that they see fit. However, this is, as of right now, A NON ISSUE. Until I hear the ATF has taken the position that this is policy, I will use my brace as I wish. There are too many "I know what I'm talking about"ers out there and a lot of those who actually KNOW what they're talking about who take the opinion that the new letter means NOTHING regarding the previous letters. Exactly as 323MAR stated above.

Pas Tout La - You're taking the position that the ATF letter pertains to everything as a whole. Why WOULD instructors enforce something that ISN'T illegal (Yet)? If you'd like to speak hypothetically, then rephrase your question more towards a "What if this were actually illegal?"

I personally just SBR'd my pistol and am selling my SB15 (not related to the letter in any way, it has more to do with the purchase of the MVB ARC Stock)... so it doesn't effect me.

 

[Devilneck]

So, maybe someone can make a shoulder pad that you place on your shoulder, that just happens to have a concave area that somebody happened to place their buffer tube into when shooting?

 

[Vermiform]

However, this is, as of right now, A NON ISSUE. Until I hear the ATF has taken the position that this is policy, I will use my brace as I wish.

They have taken a position on it. It is legal.

 

[madwabbit]

So, maybe someone can make a shoulder pad that you place on your shoulder, that just happens to have a concave area that somebody happened to place their buffer tube into when shooting?

make it. itll sell.

 

[jcbvh]

The mother of responses:

http://imgur.com/a/gLBU5

haha

 

[Jasarii]

The mother of responses:

http://imgur.com/a/gLBU5

haha

OMG>>>!!!!! I just spit my drink everywhere!!! that is funny as hell! Priceless

 

[Arabseal]

It's all about money... the scares to boost sales...the limiting of .22... they made it legal so everyone buys them now they change after everyone and their mom has one...typical from the firearm industry.