Instant background check delayed

[oldman45]

I buy more guns than most and am not a dealer but a serious collector.

Over the years I have been delayed many times. Once, in a full time gun store, myself and a uniformed state trooper both bought guns, he, a pistol and me, a .22 rifle. Also buying guns were two gentlemen looking like they were homeless and filthy. They were immediately approved. The trooper and I, both commissioned state officials, with lots of identification were delayed.

Another time, I found a nice S&W 66 at a pawnshop for a very reasonable price. They called it in and I was delayed. I left the store and had driven three blocks when I got a call that I had been approved.

Then last month I bought a gun and was told there was a three day hold put on it. I called back the next morning and was told the background check had been approved less than two hrs after I left but nobody called to inform me.

Then there are days like last Saturday when I bought two guns from different dealers and was instantly approved on each.

 

[flamatrix99]

I have a TWIC card and it's never been an issue . Interesting .

What's a TWIC card?

 

[Blindowl]

Originally Posted by whbonney26
They dont tell the dumb ass Cabelas worker why you are delayed. They just say delayed.

First off, whbonney arbitrarily calling someone who works at a Cabela's or any other place for that matter a dumb ass speaks volumes about your lack of intelligence and ability to communicate in a reasonable manner.

All the Cabela's worker was trying to tell the OP is what many of us in the retail firearms business encounter each and every day. People who have recently obtained a Transportation Worker Identification Credential or TWIC card seem to get delayed more often even though they never experienced this problem before. Law enforcement and Military personnel also seem to be delayed more often than the average Joe. It also seems that the more sensitive the job, the more likely they are to be temporarily delayed. NICS delays are for three business days, the NICS operator provides the date that the firearm may be picked up if no further response (such as a denial) is received during that period.

The solution for people who consistently receive unwarranted delays or denials might be to consider obtaining a UPIN or Unique Personal Identification Number. The UPIN identifies the individual specifically based on info voluntarily supplied and placed on file with NICS. You will need to create a VAF (Voluntary Appeal File) in order to get a UPIN. For more information pertaining to the VAF, you may contact the NICS Customer Service at 1-877-444-NICS (6427) or check online at http://http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/nics/general-information/fact-sheet

 

[tim9lives]

I applied for my VAF Dec 3rd. At that time, the waiting period for processing a VAF was @ 118 days.
I called NCIS last week to check on my status. I was told average processing time for a VAF was now 156 days. This processing can vary,,,,even though the current processing time is @ 156 days,,,,that is just a guide and individual times to process a VAF can take much longer depending on the age of records,,,ect.
Anyway,,,I regret applying for the VAF because before I applied I was getting delayed every time. Now,,,I get a flat out DENIED. So I am now in limbo.

 

[Rahllin]

We have a partial winner.
The initial call and "proceed" comes from a contractor checking a database. All kinds of minor or major things can flag an applicant and require an actual government agent to issue the proceed. The catch is, if an agent is not available within a specified time, in the interest of "customer service" the contractor has to issue a delay.

False. The first person "the data input" person, can only give two responses, "proceed" or "further review." If there are ANY discrepancies the result is further review. The call is then forwarded to a "NICS examiner." The NICS examiner will then put the FFL on hold while they "review the transaction." This NICS examiner can then come back with one of three typical responses, "procced," "delay," or "deny." The data input peopel, or "contractors" as you say have a Brady ID number of one letter, usually K, T, or W followed by six digits 0-9. NICS examiner's have a 4 digit 0-9 Brady ID, these are the Federal employees who in turn spend the time to review delays that were put to the side during the initial calls due to either some underlying reason for a mandatory delay, or some discrepancy that would take more than a couple minutes to look into.

The new NICS E-check basically eliminates this "contractor/data input person" and replaces it with the FFL putting in the info. If the info comes back without ANY kind of flags, it is instant, but if their are any discrepancies a NICS examiner is standing by to look over the incoming transactions, and if it is somethign easily identified the person may still be proceeded, if not, they mark them delayed.

 

[edman87k5]

So, what is the academy policy someone stated above? I was once told that if academy didnt get a call back, they would not release the gun even after the required 3 days.
I always have a delay, sometimes i get called back within an hour, sometimes they never call. I usually just tell the shop I will come back next week.
A lot of times if at a big box store, I just have my wife pick it up, she has never been delayed. And before any of you yell straw purchase, read what a straw purchase actually is. It is only a straw purchase if the intended user (me in this case) is not legally allowed to buy.

 

[Nolacopusmc]

False. The first person "the data input" person, can only give two responses, "proceed" or "further review." If there are ANY discrepancies the result is further review. The call is then forwarded to a "NICS examiner." The NICS examiner will then put the FFL on hold while they "review the transaction." This NICS examiner can then come back with one of three typical responses, "procced," "delay," or "deny." The data input peopel, or "contractors" as you say have a Brady ID number of one letter, usually K, T, or W followed by six digits 0-9. NICS examiner's have a 4 digit 0-9 Brady ID, these are the Federal employees who in turn spend the time to review delays that were put to the side during the initial calls due to either some underlying reason for a mandatory delay, or some discrepancy that would take more than a couple minutes to look into.

The new NICS E-check basically eliminates this "contractor/data input person" and replaces it with the FFL putting in the info. If the info comes back without ANY kind of flags, it is instant, but if their are any discrepancies a NICS examiner is standing by to look over the incoming transactions, and if it is somethign easily identified the person may still be proceeded, if not, they mark them delayed.

How the Hell do you know these things?


Seriously...how do you know?

 

[rockmup]

False. The first person "the data input" person, can only give two responses, "proceed" or "further review." If there are ANY discrepancies the result is further review. The call is then forwarded to a "NICS examiner." The NICS examiner will then put the FFL on hold while they "review the transaction." This NICS examiner can then come back with one of three typical responses, "procced," "delay," or "deny." The data input peopel, or "contractors" as you say have a Brady ID number of one letter, usually K, T, or W followed by six digits 0-9. NICS examiner's have a 4 digit 0-9 Brady ID, these are the Federal employees who in turn spend the time to review delays that were put to the side during the initial calls due to either some underlying reason for a mandatory delay, or some discrepancy that would take more than a couple minutes to look into.

The new NICS E-check basically eliminates this "contractor/data input person" and replaces it with the FFL putting in the info. If the info comes back without ANY kind of flags, it is instant, but if their are any discrepancies a NICS examiner is standing by to look over the incoming transactions, and if it is somethign easily identified the person may still be proceeded, if not, they mark them delayed.

Hats off to you for taking the time to type that. No way I was going to do it and I wouldnt have been as clear as that.

 

[Rahllin]

So, what is the academy policy someone stated above? I was once told that if academy didnt get a call back, they would not release the gun even after the required 3 days.
I always have a delay, sometimes i get called back within an hour, sometimes they never call. I usually just tell the shop I will come back next week.
A lot of times if at a big box store, I just have my wife pick it up, she has never been delayed. And before any of you yell straw purchase, read what a straw purchase actually is. It is only a straw purchase if the intended user (me in this case) is not legally allowed to buy.

That is exactly correct about Academy's policy. The store will not transfer a firearm unless given a proceed by NICS. Unfortunately, in most cases, if the store doesn't get a call back in about a week, the status of the transaction goes from Delayed to Open which means chances are the store will not receive any further information, which means you wouldn't be able to get the gun. Also, if it does go to Open, the paperwork is technically still VALID for 30 days from creation, and Academy will not allow the paperwork to be cancelled out before that 30 days, so you can retry for the same firearm that is currently being held with your name on it. Some of the quirky policies of Academy I can understand the reasoning for, but I don't always agree with them. Overall, they are losing money because of it, but the big dawgs don't care because it is chump change lost because the guns are sold barely over cost, if at all. Guns don't make Academy money, everything else does.

 

[Rahllin]

How the Hell do you know these things?


Seriously...how do you know?

Well, I deal with the process A LOT. I work for the Academy Sports on Siegen Ln in Baton Rouge, so 40 hours a week, I could be doing one or multiple of these transactions at any given time. The reason I like to go out of my way trying to explain things like this to the best of my ability is the chance that anyone who may come in and deal with me will know as much as I do going into it. I can't tell you how many people come in THINKING they know everything about the process, and avidly try to tell me how to do my job, despite what I try to explain to them. Over the past year or so, it seems A LOT more people get delayed, and in most of their minds, they have the cleanest record of anyone on the planet, so they get angry at the process which I have no control over. I don't like dealing with angry customers who refuse to listen to any form of explanation. It is a process NO FLL HOLDER has any control over it, so why take it out on them? If someone is really unsure of why they get delayed, I give them the link to the FBI's website that someone posted earlier in this thread, or I print out the page for them, and tell them to follow the instructions to get a UPIN. If they refuse to listen and get angry, they probably have a reason why they aren't getting proceeded anyway, so I have no sympathy for them whatsoever. If they want to listen to what I have to say, I will help them to the best of my ability.

 

[kajuntriton]

What's a TWIC card?

Transportation Worker Identification Credential

Google this you can get everything you didn't care to know about it there! Basically it is BIG BROTHER getting more info about you. All the plant workers along the Miss. River that have Docks are required to have in there possession a TWIC card.
They use NATIONAL SECURITY as a reason/excuse for the necessity!

KT

 

[edman87k5]

That is exactly correct about Academy's policy. The store will not transfer a firearm unless given a proceed by NICS. Unfortunately, in most cases, if the store doesn't get a call back in about a week, the status of the transaction goes from Delayed to Open which means chances are the store will not receive any further information, which means you wouldn't be able to get the gun. Also, if it does go to Open, the paperwork is technically still VALID for 30 days from creation, and Academy will not allow the paperwork to be cancelled out before that 30 days, so you can retry for the same firearm that is currently being held with your name on it. Some of the quirky policies of Academy I can understand the reasoning for, but I don't always agree with them. Overall, they are losing money because of it, but the big dawgs don't care because it is chump change lost because the guns are sold barely over cost, if at all. Guns don't make Academy money, everything else does.

I don't know that I have ever filled out a 4473 at academy myself. I do know that a LOT of delays do not get called back. I used to get called back rather shortly, but for some reason probably the last 5-8 I bought never got a call back. Can't say i understand this policy for academy.
Do any other stores have a similar policy that anyone knows of?

 

[Tulse Luper]

False. The first person "the data input" person, can only give two responses, "proceed" or "further review." If there are ANY discrepancies the result is further review. The call is then forwarded to a "NICS examiner." The NICS examiner will then put the FFL on hold while they "review the transaction." This NICS examiner can then come back with one of three typical responses, "procced," "delay," or "deny." The data input peopel, or "contractors" as you say have a Brady ID number of one letter, usually K, T, or W followed by six digits 0-9. NICS examiner's have a 4 digit 0-9 Brady ID, these are the Federal employees who in turn spend the time to review delays that were put to the side during the initial calls due to either some underlying reason for a mandatory delay, or some discrepancy that would take more than a couple minutes to look into.

The new NICS E-check basically eliminates this "contractor/data input person" and replaces it with the FFL putting in the info. If the info comes back without ANY kind of flags, it is instant, but if their are any discrepancies a NICS examiner is standing by to look over the incoming transactions, and if it is somethign easily identified the person may still be proceeded, if not, they mark them delayed.

Great info, Rahllin. Do you find there are more delays on weekends or holiday weekends like Easter?

 

[Rahllin]

I don't know that I have ever filled out a 4473 at academy myself. I do know that a LOT of delays do not get called back. I used to get called back rather shortly, but for some reason probably the last 5-8 I bought never got a call back. Can't say i understand this policy for academy.
Do any other stores have a similar policy that anyone knows of?

Well, I think MOST delays used to get calls back, but like I said, over the past year the amount of delays has grown exponentially, and since the Brady Law ALLOWS the transfer of the gun after 3 business days, I guess the NICS examiners get to the ones they can (or possibly the ones that fall into a certain category?) and the rest just sit because they ASSUME the FFL transfers after 3 days. I have several reasonings as to why Academy DOES have the policy, but the actual "official" reasons I am not 100% sure if they coincide with the reasons I am aware of. I know that the policy is most commonly only found in stores that do not deal in used firearms (Academy, Wal-Mart, etc..), and I have never heard of a store that DOES deal in used firearms that will not transfer after x number of days with no response.

Like I said, the policy for Academy sucks for a lot of people because the store does often times have some of the best local prices, but I can also see that it is not very high on Corporate Academy's care list because of the very low markup on firearms.

 

[Rahllin]

Great info, Rahllin. Do you find there are more delays on weekends or holiday weekends like Easter?

Actually, despite popular belief, I do not see this. Black Friday is a perfect example. This past year, that weekend resulted in well over 100 gun sales at this store alone, so if you add up all the stores who had Black Friday deals on guns, the number of total sales that weekend would easily blow any other holiday out the water. That weekend, including the morning of Black Friday when we were calling in 5-10 at a time, back to back to back, I did not notice any increase in the percentage of delays to actual checks than regular.

As a side note, what nearly killed us was the ever so timely 3-4 hour downtime NICS had mid day Black Friday. We had guns all over the place that people filled out 4473's for but we couldn't call them in until NICS was back up... fun stuff.

 

[Nolacopusmc]

Well, I deal with the process A LOT. I work for the Academy Sports on Siegen Ln in Baton Rouge, so 40 hours a week, I could be doing one or multiple of these transactions at any given time. The reason I like to go out of my way trying to explain things like this to the best of my ability is the chance that anyone who may come in and deal with me will know as much as I do going into it. I can't tell you how many people come in THINKING they know everything about the process, and avidly try to tell me how to do my job, despite what I try to explain to them. Over the past year or so, it seems A LOT more people get delayed, and in most of their minds, they have the cleanest record of anyone on the planet, so they get angry at the process which I have no control over. I don't like dealing with angry customers who refuse to listen to any form of explanation. It is a process NO FLL HOLDER has any control over it, so why take it out on them? If someone is really unsure of why they get delayed, I give them the link to the FBI's website that someone posted earlier in this thread, or I print out the page for them, and tell them to follow the instructions to get a UPIN. If they refuse to listen and get angry, they probably have a reason why they aren't getting proceeded anyway, so I have no sympathy for them whatsoever. If they want to listen to what I have to say, I will help them to the best of my ability.

I feel you brother. thanks for taking the time to educate the masses. You learn a lot working big box. In the year i ran Target, I learned that I WAS NOT CUT out for working in big box retail.

However, the lessons I learned about managment vs. leadership, logistics, marketing, presentation, and workflow, have proven priceless to me.

Your a better man than me if you can tough that out, though I think I would have enjoyed Academy more than Targete'!

 

[Μολὼν λαβέ]

I buy more guns than most and am not a dealer but a serious collector.

Over the years I have been delayed many times. Once, in a full time gun store, myself and a uniformed state trooper both bought guns, he, a pistol and me, a .22 rifle. Also buying guns were two gentlemen looking like they were homeless and filthy. They were immediately approved. The trooper and I, both commissioned state officials, with lots of identification were delayed.

Another time, I found a nice S&W 66 at a pawnshop for a very reasonable price. They called it in and I was delayed. I left the store and had driven three blocks when I got a call that I had been approved.

Then last month I bought a gun and was told there was a three day hold put on it. I called back the next morning and was told the background check had been approved less than two hrs after I left but nobody called to inform me.

Then there are days like last Saturday when I bought two guns from different dealers and was instantly approved on each.

Unfortunately, it happens to all (or most of us) at some time or another, buddy (some more frequently than others)... and is extremely frustrating.

I get a hold approximately 4 out of 5 times that I buy firearms. I have an extremely unique last name, but apparently that has no bearing on the situation... I even have my C&R.

And yes, the times when you get a hold, then get a proceed an hour or 3 later (and never get notified of it) are extremely frustrating.


I once had a store put me on hold, receive no proceed/deny response after 3 business days, and even on the 4th day STILL refuse to lease the gun.. all while keeping my money. Needless to say, I found the owner's contact information directly and the employees got their ass reamed... I also got my money back, but it's still frustrating that they held my money for 4 days.


I don't know if it has been mentioned yet... but there IS a form and process the ATF offers to completely stop (or possibly reduce greatly; been a long time since I looked into it) holds, as they retain your records instead of destroying them, so you get an instant approval.

I seem to remember the process being somewhat involved (fingerprinting, etc.) but it is 100% worth it if you buy frequently.

Give your local BATF office a ring and they will be able to help you out.

 

[yamatitan]

I wish Louisiana would just do like other states and make it instant with a ccw permit. All these problems would be solved for me at least I get a delayed status probably 60% of the time myself.

 

[kpm1234]

False. The first person "the data input" person, can only give two responses, "proceed" or "further review." If there are ANY discrepancies the result is further review. The call is then forwarded to a "NICS examiner." The NICS examiner will then put the FFL on hold while they "review the transaction." This NICS examiner can then come back with one of three typical responses, "procced," "delay," or "deny." The data input peopel, or "contractors" as you say have a Brady ID number of one letter, usually K, T, or W followed by six digits 0-9. NICS examiner's have a 4 digit 0-9 Brady ID, these are the Federal employees who in turn spend the time to review delays that were put to the side during the initial calls due to either some underlying reason for a mandatory delay, or some discrepancy that would take more than a couple minutes to look into.

The new NICS E-check basically eliminates this "contractor/data input person" and replaces it with the FFL putting in the info. If the info comes back without ANY kind of flags, it is instant, but if their are any discrepancies a NICS examiner is standing by to look over the incoming transactions, and if it is somethign easily identified the person may still be proceeded, if not, they mark them delayed.

Rahllin,
You have obviously done extensive and very detailed research into the process. Good work. I was mistaken in the statement that the data input person could issue a deny. You are in fact correct in that they can only issue proceed or review and that actually makes sense.
The only point I was trying to make was to the OP's question of why some unexplained delays occur and that these are then often cleared very quickly. The contract does in fact require a response to the caller (ffl) in a set period of time, even if that answer is delay. It may sound silly, but welcome to the world of government contracting. Actually (sadly), this is pretty typical in contract performance clauses.

Since you seem to enjoy the research and make a good number of calls, how about trying this? From the time the initial call is answered, start a timer. The data points would be 1. How long to proceed by data person. 2. How long to being put on hold. 3. How long on hold and proceed by examiner. 4. How long on hold and delay by examiner. Might provide some interesting data.

 

[Bobcat32]

I wish Louisiana would just do like other states and make it instant with a ccw permit. All these problems would be solved for me at least I get a delayed status probably 60% of the time myself.

I agree ,but That would be too easy.Then you would actually enjoy going to the gun shop