More Females Learning to Shoot.

[TickleChain]

You have to ask yourself why this bullet has been around since 2017 and not a single large agency or department has adopted it. Even a basic understanding of fluid dynamics and pistol velocity rounds would make you shake your head at their claims. Not to mention a lighter bullet transfers less kinetic energy than a heavy, them making it lighter and faster is counterproductive to deep tissue penetration by any common sense, even with their cringy fluid dynamics claims.

I watched the video and the comical explanation on the mysterious fluid dynamics causing the ballistics gel (Which I have shot a lot of) to expand. The reason the bullet stopped so short in the second block was because its got so little mass behind it, not some mysterious temporary wound cavity.

Not trying to disrespect a round you seem very vested in, but there is a reason most reviews saw it as an expensive gimmick with a heavy advertising component behind it. I would like to see some actual shootings in live tissue with it, not ballistic gel as their foremost data. Gel is a constant and doesnt present voids or pressure filled spaces to really gauge performance.

Just some thoughts, not meant to rile you up.

Discussion is good!
I researched their claims and the technology behind the FTM quite a bit before I spent any money.
The fluting/FTM in the XD/XP bullets is actually an "old" technology.

According to many accounts, some FBI agents use the XD/XP bullets, at least to some degree.

The gel footage proves that the technology works. Whether there would be "voids" in transferred energy in live tissue or not is unseen.

Known shortfall with HPs is plugging, causing the bullet to function as a FMJ.

 

[TickleChain]

blackdirtdiaries.com/2020/10/20/stop-it-with-stopping-power/

Here's a decent little quick read

https://blackdirtdiaries.com/2020/10/20/stop-it-with-stopping-power/

 

[TickleChain]

You have to ask yourself why this bullet has been around since 2017 and not a single large agency or department has adopted it.

Maybe, juuust maaaybe, LE agencies/agents/officers use them but haven't disclosed that information...so they keep the upper hand (understandably), same as they do with their vehicles/boats. Most agencies/branches don't let criminals/enemies know what they're workin' with.

Maybe I'm screwing up posting about this on open forum, because of that?

 

[TickleChain]

blackdirtdiaries.com/2019/07/17/the-case-for-solid-copper-projectiles/

Another article from the same, about FTM/XD and sprinkled with a little Controlled Chaos.

https://blackdirtdiaries.com/2019/07/17/the-case-for-solid-copper-projectiles/

 

[TickleChain]

@AdvancedLaser

I will say that in the Lehigh video comparison between the XD and XP, they should have used the same bullet weight of both styles.

 

[AdvancedLaser]

Discussion is good!
I researched their claims and the technology behind the FTM quite a bit before I spent any money.
The fluting/FTM in the XD/XP bullets is actually an "old" technology.

According to many accounts, some FBI agents use the XD/XP bullets, at least to some degree.

The gel footage proves that the technology works. Whether there would be "voids" in transferred energy in live tissue or not is unseen.

Known shortfall with HPs is plugging, causing the bullet to function as a FMJ.

sorry, again I am calling BS. Federal Agents dont just decide to change their duty rounds in their guns. Come on. Thats literally career ending if involved in a lethal force encounter.

"Known shortfall with HPs is plugging, causing the bullet to function as a FMJ."
Which is remedied by the Hornady Critical Duty round and its plastic insert.

 

[AdvancedLaser]

Maybe, juuust maaaybe, LE agencies/agents/officers use them but haven't disclosed that information...so they keep the upper hand (understandably), same as they do with their vehicles/boats. Most agencies/branches don't let criminals/enemies know what they're workin' with.

Maybe I'm screwing up posting about this on open forum, because of that?

Sorry, they dont. Thats just internet fantasies. Deputies/Officers carry the provided rounds. Can you imagine the outcome of carrying some unknown/unproven round in court when they have to shoot someone. Crucified by the agency, the courts, and the media. Nope, they just dont. The vast majority defer to a higher authority when chosing duty rounds. Thats why so many bullet manufacturers court and masturbate the FBI firearms section. They want their round to be accepted and approved by the FBI. Its what the smaller agencies look to for testing and qualification of rounds because they have the budget and manpower. Then the smaller agencies just carry the same round because its defensible in court.

 

[AdvancedLaser]

blackdirtdiaries.com/2020/10/20/stop-it-with-stopping-power/

Here's a decent little quick read

https://blackdirtdiaries.com/2020/10/20/stop-it-with-stopping-power/

Here is a better one for you. Instead of some guy in the woods who self admittedly knows nothing about ballistics. Read from people who do.

fbi handgun wounding factors and effectiveness : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

fbi handgun wounding factors and effectiveness

archive.org

 

[TickleChain]

sorry, again I am calling BS. Federal Agents dont just decide to change their duty rounds in their guns. Come on. Thats literally career ending if involved in a lethal force encounter.

"Known shortfall with HPs is plugging, causing the bullet to function as a FMJ."
Which is remedied by the Hornady Critical Duty round and its plastic insert.

I have no idea how LE operate regarding duty weapons and ammo.

 

[TickleChain]

Sorry, they dont. Thats just internet fantasies. Deputies/Officers carry the provided rounds. Can you imagine the outcome of carrying some unknown/unproven round in court when they have to shoot someone. Crucified by the agency, the courts, and the media. Nope, they just dont. The vast majority defer to a higher authority when chosing duty rounds. Thats why so many bullet manufacturers court and masturbate the FBI firearms section. They want their round to be accepted and approved by the FBI. Its what the smaller agencies look to for testing and qualification of rounds because they have the budget and manpower. Then the smaller agencies just carry the same round because its defensible in court.

Most of Us non-LEO Citizens are not aware of what is tested/proven or not by government agencies.
We have no clue what they carry.

I do not live my life via fantasies. I may have ill-perceptions or misconceptions, however.

 

[TickleChain]

Here is a better one for you. Instead of some guy in the woods who self admittedly knows nothing about ballistics. Read from people who do.

fbi handgun wounding factors and effectiveness : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

fbi handgun wounding factors and effectiveness

archive.org

The guy that wrote the articles may know little of ballistics but he's observing his results.

 

[TickleChain]

Here is a better one for you. Instead of some guy in the woods who self admittedly knows nothing about ballistics. Read from people who do.

fbi handgun wounding factors and effectiveness : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

fbi handgun wounding factors and effectiveness

archive.org

I've read through a bit of that PDF file but I have to hang today up. I'll resume at my next opportunity.

I'll say this, and it's a result of reading parts of that file:
Law Enforcement should give Lehigh's XDs and XPs a chance. Really.

 

[AdvancedLaser]

Most of Us non-LEO Citizens are not aware of what is tested/proven or not by government agencies.
We have no clue what they carry.

I do not live my life via fantasies. I may have ill-perceptions or misconceptions, however.

Gotcha, hope that helped.

I didnt mean you. Apologizes if it came out that way.

 

[TickleChain]

Most of the machined bullets I've seen are awesome and have a lot of good benefits. That doesn't mean traditional hollow points/self-defense don't work anymore, or you should throw them away. They will both kill or destroy.

I think what's holding them back (I don't know how it will change anytime soon) is the cost. Currently, It's still paying a much higher costs for a little more performance. Same thing is holding them back with hunting ammunition.

I have paid the higher pricetag for my component bullets. I justify that with a set of criteria that applies to handgun and rifle both.

I don't go through many premium bullets other than load development, feeding/cycling confirmation, and hunting.

Regarding everything firearms-related, the cost of each ammunition component is very low in comparison to other items, with emphasis on the firearms and firearm parts. When hunting is brought into the picture, the costly parts of the equation dwarf the cost of ammunition.

 

[TickleChain]

Gotcha, hope that helped.

I didnt mean you. Apologizes if it came out that way.

I believe Lehigh should get a chance to be tested by the government agency that conducts those tests, if they haven't already.

In today's CRAZY @$$ world, that extra 1% advantage obviously counts in Law Enforcement, as mentioned in the file, and the cost of the bullet is minuscule, really.

Motor mentioned [paraphrasing] carrying only what was needed on his duty belt while maintaining safety...
In the case of a .45 Auto with a 10-round magazine, just the difference between 10 rounds of 120 gr. XDs vs. 10 rounds of 185 gr. HPs is surprising. The difference obviously gets larger when making that same comparison using 200 gr. or 230 gr. projectiles.
I'm not sure if any or many LEOs carry .45 Autos but bullet diameter was one of the key points in the file you posted the link to.

I'll add that, since reading through some of that file, I feel great with my choices of chambering and components.
Actually made me feel even a little more safe

 

[gwpercle]

You young guy's out there ... just remember ... it's great to teach your wife/girlfriend how to shoot and even buy her a nice handgun ...
But you have to watch what you do and what you say ....
A Armed Angry Wife who can shoot ... is something you don't want to contend with !!!

My advice ... Go ahead and teach them to shoot ... Go ahead and Arm them ...
But ...Be Nice and watch your P's and Q's !

Hell has No Fury like a woman ticked off at you !
Gary

 

[TickleChain]

You young guy's out there ... just remember ... it's great to teach your wife/girlfriend how to shoot and even buy her a nice handgun ...
But you have to watch what you do and what you say ....
A Armed Angry Wife who can shoot ... is something you don't want to contend with !!!

My advice ... Go ahead and teach them to shoot ... Go ahead and Arm them ...
But ...Be Nice and watch your P's and Q's !

Hell has No Fury like a woman ticked off at you !
Gary

It's a calculated risk. LMAO

 

[Doctor481]

Read something that stated Wilson Combat recently purchased Lehigh

 

[TickleChain]

Read something that stated Wilson Combat recently purchased Lehigh

I'm not certain if it was an outright acquistion, a merger or some other form of partnership, but that have joined in some way.
Good thing because I Loves Me Some Wilson Combat!