New Bill --- Guns at Parades

[dawg23]

Hope this isn't a dupe -- should help confirm whether the current law means "at" a parade or means "in" a parade. I think there was a more recent update in the Advocate earlier this week, but I can't find it online.:

http://www.2theadvocate.com/news/44852157.html

Parade gunfire bill advances
By JORDAN BLUM
Advocate Capitol News Bureau

Firing a gun during a parade or gathering — even without wounding anyone — should be punishable by up to 10 years in prison, a House committee decided Tuesday.

Bill sponsor state Rep. Juan LaFonta, D-New Orleans, said his legislation is a response to the 2007 Fourth of July shootings in Baton Rouge and recent parade shootings during Mardi Gras in New Orleans.

Two of the parents of the Fourth of July shooting victims testified in favor of the bill.

LaFonta said his bill is intended to put “teeth” into the law so people will be deterred from bringing weapons within 1,000 feet of public events.

House Bill 44 forbids the “reckless discharge of a weapon” near any gathering that requires a government permit. The offense would be punishable by five to 10 years in prison.

Perpetrators could be eligible for parole after three years. They would face fines of up to $5,000. The bill goes to the House floor.

The bill as originally written would have outlawed possession of a weapon at parades and gatherings.

LaFonta amended it to “reckless discharge” after facing initial opposition from the National Rifle Association and some fellow lawmakers.

A repeated theme during the House Criminal Justice Committee meeting was the 2007 Fourth of July shooting in Baton Rouge along the downtown riverfront.

Devin Deon Collins, 20, was convicted in April on two counts of aggravated battery for participating in the shooting and serious wounding of 18-year-old Kayla Smith and 23-year-old Robert Blunschi Jr.

Smith and Blunschi were caught in the crossfire of a shootout.

Smith, 16 at the time of the shootings, was shot in the abdomen and suffered permanent paralysis from spinal cord injuries.

Blunschi, then 21, who was shot in the head, suffered brain damage and still has not returned home.

 

[Gus McCrae]

Wouldn't it already be against the law to unlawfully discharge a firearm within city limits?

 

[CCW]

Hb 44

Here is a link to the legislation as it is moving through the legislative process. If I read it correctly, it exempts those with parish permits for concealed carry. It does not exempt those with state permits from the law.

I had a conversation with Rep. LaFonta prior to the beginning of the session to discuss the bill with him. The conversation was cordial. We agreed that we would not agree on the legislation. I did point out to him that he was expempting only people with parish permits and not state permits. He indicated that his intention was to exempt the people with state permits. Apparently, the bill has not been amended to make the correction with regards to state permits.

It appears to be disingenuous on Rep. LaFonta's part by not at least amending the bill as he indicated that he would during our conversation to exempt state permit holders.

http://www.legis.state.la.us/billdata/streamdocument.asp?did=651361

 

[CCW]

As the bill is written, it would be a felony for people with concealed carry permits issued by the State of Louisiana to carry at a parade. It would be legal for those with parish permits to carry at a parade. I fail to understand the reasoning.

 

[crewdawg]

Wouldn't it already be against the law to unlawfully discharge a firearm within city limits?

Yeah, but if you make another law against it, it will help. Criminals will disobey one law, but if you make two laws against something, then they will understand that you really don't want them doing that, so they won't break those laws.

 

[dawg23]

As the bill is written, it would be a felony for people with concealed carry permits issued by the State of Louisiana to carry at a parade. It would be legal for those with parish permits to carry at a parade. I fail to understand the reasoning.

You must be looking at an earlier verson of HB 44, or at a different bill altogether.

Here's a link to the current version of HB44: http://www.legis.state.la.us/billdata/streamdocument.asp?did=651361

AN ACT
To enact R.S. 14:95.2.2, relative to offenses affecting the public safety; to create the crime of reckless discharge of a firearm at a parade or demonstration; to provide for definitions; to provide for the elements of the crime; to provide for penalties; to provide for exceptions; and to provide for related matters.
Be it enacted by the Legislature of Louisiana:
Section 1. R.S. 14:95.2.2 is hereby enacted to read as follows:
§95.2.2. Reckless discharge of a firearm at a parade or demonstration
A. Reckless discharge of a firearm at a parade or demonstration is the reckless or criminally negligent discharge of a firearm within one thousand feet of any parade, demonstration, or gathering for which a permit is issued by a governmental entity. B. For the purposes of this Section: (1) "Firearm" means any pistol, revolver, rifle, shotgun, machine gun, submachine gun, excluding black powder weapons, or assault rifle which is designed to fire or is capable of firing fixed cartridge ammunition or from which a shot or projectile is discharged by an explosive.
(2) "Parade" for the purposes of this Section shall be defined as any
celebration of Mardi Gras or directly related pre-Lenten or carnival-related
festivities, school parades, parish parades, state parades, or municipal parades, or any demonstration or gathering for which a permit is issued by a governmental entity.
(3) "Reckless or criminally negligent" means that although neither specific
nor general criminal intent is present, there is such disregard of the interest of others that the offender's conduct amounts to a gross deviation below the standard of care expected to be maintained by a reasonably careful man under like circumstances.
C. The provisions of this Section shall not apply to: (1) A federal, state, or local law enforcement officer in the performance of his official duties.
(2) The possession of a firearm occurring within one thousand feet of a public gathering entirely within a private residence or in accordance with a concealed handgun permit issued pursuant to R.S. 40:1379.1.
(3) The possession or discharge of a firearm by a person who holds a valid
certificate as a living historian in the use, storage, and handling of black powder issued by the Louisiana office of state parks for the purpose of historic reenactments if the firearm is a black powder weapon which is an antique firearm as defined in 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(16), or an antique device exempted from the term "destructive device" in 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(4).
(4) The possession or discharge of a firearm by a person possessing a valid
hunting license and hunting on a public hunting ground or recreation area.
D. Whoever commits the crime of reckless or negligent discharge of a
firearm at a parade or demonstration shall be sentenced to imprisonment at hard labor for not less than five nor more than ten years, at least three years of the sentence imposed shall be served without benefit of parole, probation, or suspension of sentence and shall be fined not more than five thousand dollars.
E. The provisions of this Section shall not apply to the discharge of any
firearm which has been authorized as part of the parade itself.

DIGEST
The digest printed below was prepared by House Legislative Services. It constitutes no part of the legislative instrument. The keyword, one-liner, abstract, and digest do not constitute part of the law or proof or indicia of legislative intent.

[R.S. 1:13(B) and 24:177(E)]
LaFonta HB No. 44
Abstract: Creates the crime of reckless discharge of a firearm at an authorized parade or demonstration. Proposed law creates the crime of reckless discharge of a firearm at a parade or demonstration as the reckless or criminally negligent discharge of a firearm within one thousand feet of any parade, demonstration, or gathering for which a permit is issued by a
governmental entity.

Proposed law defines "firearm", "parade", and "reckless or criminally negligent".
Proposed law creates exceptions to the crime for hunting, law enforcement, private residences, and historic reenactments. Proposed law provides for penalties of imprisonment at hard labor for not less than five nor
more than 10 years, at least three years of the sentence imposed shall be served without benefit of parole, probation, or suspension of sentence and shall be fined not more than $5,000.

Proposed law provides that proposed law shall not apply to the discharge of any firearm which has been authorized as part of the parade itself.
(Adds R.S. 14:95.2.2)

This bill creates the crime of "reckless discharge" ---it has nothing to do with carrying at a parade. And in fact it specifically states that the provisions of the bill do not apply to citizens who have with a valid Concealed Handgun Permit.

 

[dawg23]

I found an update in The Advocate, but can't find an electronic link. The May 26, 2009 edition of The Advocate says HB 44 passed the House on a vote of 95-0.

This bill now heads to a Senate committee hearing.

 

[Mr_Willson]

Wouldn't it already be against the law to unlawfully discharge a firearm within city limits?

not even in self defense? whats the purpose of carrying then?

 

[spanky]

Wait so if this passes, it will be illegal to discharge a firearm at a parade?

Damn the man.

Ernie. I can't look it up now. Is that exemption for state permits?

 

[CCW]

Dawg23,

I hope you are right and I am wrong, but it is my understand that Louisiana RS 40:1379.1 is the section that deals with parish permits. RE 40:1379.3 is the section that deals with the state issued permits. Unless I am missing something, it appears to me that the state issued permit holders are not exempt from the proposed law.

 

[dawg23]

RS 40:1379.1 deals with parish permits, but it is also the enabling legislaton under which our concealed handgun permit system was established:

"H. The deputy secretary of the Department of Public Safety shall have the authority to grant to an individual a concealed handgun permit from the office of state police. Before the individual applies to the deputy secretary for a permit, he must have been granted a concealed handgun permit by the chief law enforcement officer of the parish in which he is officially domiciled. Any individual who receives a concealed handgun permit from the office of state police must be bonded in the amount of five thousand dollars and must adhere to all restrictive stipulations as provided in the concealed handgun permit. Further, the deputy secretary shall have the authority to promulgate and adopt regulations providing with respect to the issuance and use of said permit.

I. The superintendent of state police or the chief law enforcement officer of a parish shall have the authority to revoke any concealed handgun permit, and is further empowered to require those holding handgun permits to furnish proof of their being bonded, and such other information as may be deemed necessary for determining suitability for holding a concealed handgun permit."

It is my understanding that essentially all of our CCW statutes (such as 40:1379.3) have been enacted, and the State Police Administrative Rules have been promulgated, pursuant to 40:1379.1 -- but I'm sure one of the attorneys who post here can weigh in and correct me if I'm wrong.

40:1379.3 deals with CHP application procedures and definitions --- as authorized by 40:1379.1

 

[CCW]

I wish I could agree with Dawg23 concerning RS 40:1379.1 and 40:1379.3. It would be interesting to hear an attorney share his/her opinion on the subject. My concern is that we are being lulled to sleep because the law would not apply to state issued concealed permits. I would hate to find out after it is passed and signed into law that state permit holders are not exempt from the new law.

 

[XD-GEM]

CCW,
I don't think you're looking carefully enough. LaFonta's bill was amended to take the possesion part out of the bill, leaving it only dealing with discharging a firearm. You are correct that he has an exception only for the parish permit, but since this bill doesn't deal with carry, it's of little consequence from that standpoint.

The bill to be concerned about was one introduced to take up where Lafonta's bill was cut - HB 523. Here's an excerpt from a previous post of mine.

HB523 by Ernst (not on my original list) - Scheduled for floor debate on 5/19/2009 – This bill creates the crime of illegal carrying of a firearm at a parade. This bill takes up what was deleted from HB44 above. It was heavily amended (including an addition to the exceptions clause clarifying that the exception shall include both parish and statewide CHPs).

Both bills, IMHO, are unconstitutional under the Louisiana Constitution, Article 1, Section 11. This bill was "returned to the calendar" on the House Floor on 5/19/09, meaning that no vote was taken, but can be taken anytime this session.

 

[spanky]

The thing is this has nothing to do with carry, only "discharge."

 

[Gus McCrae]

not even in self defense? whats the purpose of carrying then?

"unlawfully"

 

[Witiku]

Has this been a problem needing a law?

 

[spanky]

Has this been a problem needing a law?

evidently the more laws you make about one thing, the better chance you have of a criminal obeying it.

 

[Witiku]

Are the law makers that bored? They have to decree "Do not shoot yer gunz at a parade." As if that was an iffy area in the law.

 

[XD-GEM]

RS 40:1379.1 deals with parish permits, but it is also the enabling legislaton under whci our concealed handgun permit system was established:

<SNIP>
It is my understanding that essentially all of our CCW statutes (such as 40:1379.3) have been enacted, and the State Police Administrative Rules have been promulgated, pursuant to 40:1379.1 -- but I'm sure one of the attorneys who post here can weigh in and correct me if I'm wrong.

40:1379.3 deals with CHP application procedures and definitions --- as authorized by 40:1379.1

I'd like to see what any of the attorneys say as well.

The way it was explained to me by Gordon Hutchinson was that there are 2 separate permits, one administered by the Sheriff and good only in that parish; and the other is administered by the State Police and is a statewide permit. The requirements for each are slightly different and the carry permission is slightly different (for example, a parish permittee must post a bond and may carry in a "Firearm Free School Zone," while a statewide permit does not require a bond and is not exempted from the "Firearm Free School Zone" laws).

Gordon said it was set up this way so as to have the support of the Sheriffs who might otherwise have opposed the newer law for removing some of their powers. But perhaps I misunderstood what Gordon said to me.

 

[CCW]

OK, I may be confused. LaFonta's original bill dealt with possession and discharge of a weapon at a parade. I now see that the crime only deals with discharge of a weapon at a parade. The exceptions still deal with possession of a firearm as well as discharge of a firearm. They must have tried to clean it up and did not remove the exceptions for possession. It is convoluted, confusing and most likely unconstitutional, but that has never stopped determined legislators before. Hope this dies soon...