No refusal weekend question

[Nolacopusmc]

Do they hold you down and draw blood? How does this happen? and for the record ( I would never drive drunk) but I think it is total BS.

You know, i really do not know, because most people were too drunk to resist. LOL.

Seriously, I know they absolutely will if there is a fatality or serious injurythat may result in a fatality.

As far as a run of the mill DUI, I would think they could just like they could serve any warrant by force, but I have not personally experienced it.

Just remember something, you do not have to walk, turn, blow, bleed or **** to be convicted. You are being arrested solely on the officer's interpretation of your behavior and conditions. The SFST, Intox, and blood are only confirming....from a legal perspective.

After that is where we get into DA's and Judges legislating from the bench. SOme DA's open say they will not prosecute unless there is an INTOX or blood over .008. That is ******** as the law does not require that.

I have personally arrested and had convicted people for DUI with no video, intox, or anything, based solely on my testimony. That was also about 10 years ago.

Now, in today's legal climate, depending on the location, that is next to impossible.

As with EVERY OTHER LEGAL issue, there is no definitive answers or yes or no answers and it is entirely dependent on the circumstances, parties involved, legal climate, and moment in time.

 

[W1nds0rF0x]

For example; if you are prescribed Loratab for a recently broken arm, and you take you prescribed dose and then drive to a friends house, enroute you have a difficult time maintaining your lane and are observed and stopped by the Police.

But of course, by the letter of the law if this happens because you are paying more attention to a cell phone instead of the life that's going on around you, you're good to go...

*CAN* you, if you see someone driving poorly/erratically and you stop them to see if they are impaired and find they were dicking with a phone; give them a citation for "distracted driving" or something similar??

Do they hold you down and draw blood? How does this happen? and for the record ( I would never drive drunk) but I think it is total BS.

I'll go out on a limb ans say they likely wouldn't have to. Unless you have 2-3 cops at the stop that are totally stupid, or all 100% dishonest and have some reason to specifically screw you over, that night, they are not going to waste the time and effort involved. Unless, maybe they're looking for a good YouTube video....

 

[charliepapa]

But of course, by the letter of the law if this happens because you are paying more attention to a cell phone instead of the life that's going on around you, you're good to go...

*CAN* you, if you see someone driving poorly/erratically and you stop them to see if they are impaired and find they were dicking with a phone; give them a citation for "distracted driving" or something similar??

I'm not a traffic cop but I'd hope that Failure to Maintain Control would apply, especially if they crossed paint on either side.

 

[charlie12]

But of course, by the letter of the law if this happens because you are paying more attention to a cell phone instead of the life that's going on around you, you're good to go...

*CAN* you, if you see someone driving poorly/erratically and you stop them to see if they are impaired and find they were dicking with a phone; give them a citation for "distracted driving" or something similar??



I'll go out on a limb ans say they likely wouldn't have to. Unless you have 2-3 cops at the stop that are totally stupid, or all 100% dishonest and have some reason to specifically screw you over, that night, they are not going to waste the time and effort involved. Unless, maybe they're looking for a good YouTube video....

I know a kid that was stopped about a month ago, he was smoking dope and had a gun in the car. The traffic charge was below.

§79. Driving on roadway laned for traffic

Whenever any roadway has been divided into two or more clearly marked lanes for traffic, the following rules, in addition to all others consistent herewith, shall apply.

(1) A vehicle shall be driven as nearly as practicable entirely within a single lane and shall not be moved from such lane until the driver has first ascertained that such movement can be made with safety.

(2) The department may erect signs directing slow moving traffic to use a designated lane or designating those lanes to be used by traffic moving in a particular direction, and drivers of vehicles shall obey the directions of such signs.

Acts 1962, No. 310, §1.

 

[thomjb]

Where I work if in custody then the taxpayer pays...

 

[TomTerrific]

After that is where we get into DA's and Judges legislating from the bench. SOme DA's open say they will not prosecute unless there is an INTOX or blood over .008. That is ******** as the law does not require that.

That's 0.08volume-percent I believe, Brannon.

 

[TomTerrific]

After that is where we get into DA's and Judges legislating from the bench. SOme DA's open say they will not prosecute unless there is an INTOX or blood over .008. That is ******** as the law does not require that.

That's 0.08 volume-percent I believe, Brannon.

 

[Nolacopusmc]

That's 0.08 volume-percent I believe, Brannon.

That's 0.08volume-percent I believe, Brannon.

WTF?
Apparently you didn't understand it either as you posted it twice.

But since you want to be a smartass, you are wrong. Look it up Nancy Numbers.


Good try though...like 3-5 fails in one of your posts x 2 posts= a lot of fail

ETA: SOrry that came across like a big meanie, I was just messin with yah

 

[charliepapa]

with all due respect to all parties...

.0008 (w/3 zeroes) = .08%

because, .08% = .08 over, or divided by 100, which = .0008

same amount, said two different ways.

 

[Nolacopusmc]

with all due respect to all parties...

.0008 (w/3 zeroes) = .08%

because, .08% = .08 over, or divided by 100, which = .0008

same amount, said two different ways.

.08% BAC per gram of blood

b) The operator's blood alcohol concentration is 0.08 percent or more by weight based on grams of alcohol per one hundred cubic centimeters of blood;

You beatches know I can't type fo shitz. LOL.

 

[charliepapa]

.08% BAC per gram of blood

You beatches know I can't type fo shitz. LOL.

no ding, I just happened to have a calculator here next to the computer and was curious my own self. peace out.

 

[Plinky]

Brannon do the LE have the right to force you to take a test or be arrested? Would that not be a violation of the Unlawful Arrest Rights and Unconstitutional? Could a person who knows that have broken no laws resist the arrest as it is in fact a assault upon person by the arresting officer which the supreme court has upheld that it gives a citizen the right to resist and use lethal force against the officer as in State v. Mobley ?

“Each person has the right to resist an unlawful arrest. In such a case, the person attempting the arrest stands in the position of a wrongdoer and may be resisted by the use of force, as in self- defense.” (State v. Mobley, 240 N.C. 476, 83 S.E. 2d 100).

Now i know you are going to say a SC decision is not the law, however i believe the decision on Judy v. Lashey is what got your buddy MEM 2 new Motorcycle.


I am aware that criminally "the right of the public's safety comes before your right to privacy" however does not a Civil right superceed a criminal law? Yes, im asking, as I am not certain on this law/right was wondering if anyone here is.

 

[Nolacopusmc]

Brannon do the LE have the right to force you to take a test or be arrested? Would that not be a violation of the Unlawful Arrest Rights and Unconstitutional? Could a person who knows that have broken no laws resist the arrest as it is in fact a assault upon person by the arresting officer which the supreme court has upheld that it gives a citizen the right to resist and use lethal force against the officer as in State v. Mobley ?



Now i know you are going to say a SC decision is not the law, however i believe the decision on Judy v. Lashey is what got your buddy MEM 2 new Motorcycle.


I am aware that criminally "the right of the public's safety comes before your right to privacy" however does not a Civil right superceed a criminal law? Yes, im asking, as I am not certain on this law/right was wondering if anyone here is.

Too many questions....work with this.

You do not get arrested because you refuse the test, you are getting tested because you are under arrest. If the officer feels he has probable cause for an arrest for DUI, you are going to jail wether you take the test or not, and regardless of the results. it is not like if you blow .000, you get to go home. This is why it is important that the officer be properly trained and know the signs of alcohol and drug impairment.

I have had people high on pain pills beg me to take the breathalizer, because they knew they would blow .000 even though they were driving like a blind one armed monkey getting a BJ from Paris Hilton. No prob. Taken em to blow. They "pass" and get a smile. Not so fast Sparky, let's take a ride to the hospital...what?

If they refuse, they have a refusal and the penalties that go with it.

You have a right to resist any unlawful arrest, but doing so ranks right up their with affecting a citizens arrest and carrying a CHP badge...good luck.

Fact is, it is statistically negligible the times LEO arrest people unlawfully where if the person resisted, they would have been justified.

Go with the flow and fight it after, Fighting the cops will never work for you physically, financially, or legally.

 

[Plinky]

Go with the flow and fight it after, Fighting the cops will never work for you physically, financially, or legally.

+1

.. so you are saying take the hit, and when u get home you find the arresting officers name is on the court paper, find him and beat his ass when nobody is looking? Very good advice thanks Brannon! LOL, j/k!!

I gots me a new crossdraw so im all gravy baby!

 

[herohog]

I am just waiting for the day I get stopped for "weaving" or some such and have to deal with what will be a grand day I am sure. I don't drink or do drugs BUT I am a pain management patient which means I ALWAYS have some level of drugs in my system. Now, does that impair my ability to operate a vehicle? No, it doesn't. It CAN if you abuse it or are having a bad day where you have to take a bit more due to more pain but on those days, you let someone else drive. I went round and round over this in regards to my CHP and the final word was as long as I was not ABUSING the drugs or using them in an illegal manner, I was fine. It does make me extra aware and careful though, that is for sure!

 

[Sin-ster]

Still a bit unclear, as it's spliced between multiple posts and this hasn't been directly addressed yet:

When you stop someone for erratic driving, speeding, what have you... And it's clear they're impaired, whether they fail the roadside test or not. And they blow .000, clearly not under the influence of alcohol. And you take them to the hospital for blood work, because at that point it's certainly narcotics...

They can refuse, but it's the same as refusing the breath test/sobriety test, with all subsequent penalties? Or they are legally obliged to comply, and are in violation of even more laws for resisting?

Interesting stuff, never had it broken down and explained by those with a firm grasp on both the law and the actual process of enforcing it.

 

[topgunz1]

Brannon do the LE have the right to force you to take a test or be arrested? Would that not be a violation of the Unlawful Arrest Rights and Unconstitutional? Could a person who knows that have broken no laws resist the arrest as it is in fact a assault upon person by the arresting officer which the supreme court has upheld that it gives a citizen the right to resist and use lethal force against the officer as in State v. Mobley ?

Almost everybody that I've arrested has been sure that they did nothing wrong and I was completely lying about what I was charging them with. Know what? Far as I remember they have all either been found guilty as charged or plead to a lesser offense, but still guilty.

Now since they "knew they did nothing wrong" they should have resisted, right? Well a few did, and they ended up being found guilty of even more charges, plus some owies.

 

[Vanilla Gorilla]

“Citizens may resist unlawful arrest to the point of taking an arresting officer's life if necessary.” Plummer v. State, 136 Ind. 306. This premise was upheld by the Supreme Court of the United States in the case: John Bad Elk v. U.S., 177 U.S. 529. The Court stated: “Where the officer is killed in the course of the disorder which naturally accompanies an attempted arrest that is resisted, the law looks with very different eyes upon the transaction.”



This is a rather old decision. Case Law and more recent reviews by the court have not upheld this one. Resisting arrest is a good way to get killed. IT is gonna escalate. The more you resist the more force is gonna be used. Why not go along and have your day in court. If you know your clear then the result will bear that out and Im sure you will be able to collect a nice settlement from the jurisdiction that arrested you.

The Police your fighting with is undoubtedly going to summon help. Even if he knows he had no cause to arrest you it is highly unlikely his friends will. So whats your plan then? Are you gonna fight 10 cops? A vicious ass dog? A Taser? You see where I'm going with this? It certainly seems the more prudent action would be to clam up and take the ride. Make your bond and then wreck shop with a Civil Attorney.

As for the refusal question; a chemical test is a chemical test. Refusal to provide blood is the same as refusing to blow. Some states like Tennessee allow the officer to request either. When I copped in the Volunteer State I never offered to Breathalyze folks. IT was blood or sign the Implied Consent Form and gimme dat DL. Suspects are routinely physically compelled to give blood with a warrant. In the past I have seen people put in a Restraint Chair and their arm taped, it wasn't for DUI, but it was blood with a warrant.

In the end its much easier to NOT Drink and Drive.

 

[Nolacopusmc]

I am just waiting for the day I get stopped for "weaving" or some such and have to deal with what will be a grand day I am sure. I don't drink or do drugs BUT I am a pain management patient which means I ALWAYS have some level of drugs in my system. Now, does that impair my ability to operate a vehicle? No, it doesn't. It CAN if you abuse it or are having a bad day where you have to take a bit more due to more pain but on those days, you let someone else drive. I went round and round over this in regards to my CHP and the final word was as long as I was not ABUSING the drugs or using them in an illegal manner, I was fine. It does make me extra aware and careful though, that is for sure!

Negative ghostrider. You do not need to be an "abuser" of drugs to have your driving affected anymore than you need to be an alcoholic to have your driving affected.

It is a chemical in your system that is specifically designed by it's very nature to alter your body chemistry. That is why you take it. Now, the doses that you personally take, may not personally impair you to the same degree that they would impair me, but you infact are under the influence.

This is how you will end up in jail.....

You are sitting at a red light minding your own business doing nothing wrong. Suzy Soccer mom is yapping away on her cell to Holly Homemaker about the newest 750.00 Coach purse she just bought with her husband's paycheck, who BTW is banging her best friend and could careless what she spends money on, as she drives her 2011 White Lexus SUV with tinted windows because it messes up the dye in her hair. Of course, she does not even see you at a dead stop and runs right into the back of you at about 48 MPH (in a 35 of course). Since it would wrinkle her White House Black Market new dress and because she is a good driver who can multi-task with the best of them, she is not wearing her seatbelt.

BOOM!!!

Airbag deploys and drives the cellphone through her eyeball, puncturing her brain and kills her instantly. Now you are involved in a fatality that you have absolutely no fault in. Guess what though....you WILL be bled to see if you were intoxicated. Now I have no idea of what you take and all the medical stuff, but I am pretty sure at least one of those bottles is either a narcotic or some other medication that it is advised you not "operate heavy machinery" type of stuff while on.

Welcome to the Louisiana Criminal Justice System. You just earned yourself your first DUI. For all practical purposes, all that is required is you, intoxicants in your system, and the fact that you are "in control" os a motor vehicle, in this case.

Now, take the humor out and that is just one example of how it could play out. Not to mention that while you may not "feel" intoxicated, that does not mean you infact are not impaired. Kinda how a drunk can walk perfectly straight and speak the Queen's English, yet blow a .267%gBAC.

I have been on the scene of at least 10 accidents where the "not at fault" person went to jai for a DUI. Not all were fatalities.

If you are that jacked up and take that much medicine, you probably should not be legally driving. However, i truly have no idea what your particular situation is, just using it as an example.

No ****, people have been arrested for Nyquil and Robitussin because it affected their ability to drive.

 

[charlie12]

My first renewal CHP class was taught by a LSP Trooper. He said when he had some dental work done he couldn't work because he couldn't carry his weapon because of the drugs they gave him.