Non Ethanol gas to be scarce in Southeast La...this sucks for us boaters/fishermen

[madwabbit]

Umm, how did this thread get away from the topic at hand?? Step away for a few hours and we are talking about making sacrifices to pay for fuel??? sheesh......

Gas being scarce -> supply/demand -> society being lazy and complacent -> your post.

thats how

 

[BOSS351]

Point being this product does not at all have to be scarce....

 

[tim9lives]

Umm, how did this thread get away from the topic at hand?? Step away for a few hours and we are talking about making sacrifices to pay for fuel??? sheesh......

Yea...we got off topic. But lets face it. They sold us ethanol because of the oil crisis. And then...they got the EPA to tell us that areas with high smog needed the nitrogen effect ethanol based gas.

Its all a lot of crap and ethanol gas is crap. Corn based fuel also caused a huge spike in food prices because of the higher cost of feed to ranchers.

IT IS ALL CRAP....Politics IMO. BIG money won...we lost.
=========

By the way....just saw this article which says ethanol actually is much worst cause of smog.

http://www.latimes.com/science/scie...zone-levels-brazil-20140501-story.html#page=1

Switch from gasoline to ethanol linked to higher smog levels

Scientists have made a surprising discovery about ethanol: The more it was used by drivers in Sao Paulo, Brazil, the more ozone they measured in the local environment.

The finding, reported this week in Nature Geoscience, is contrary to other studies predicting that increased use of ethanol would cut levels of ground-level ozone, or smog.

Sao Paulo proved a unique laboratory for studying the effects of ethanol and gasoline usage on local air pollution because 40% of the nearly 6 million light-duty vehicles there can run on either fuel. When the percentage of those vehicles using gasoline rose from 14% to 76%, ambient ozone concentrations in the city fell by about 20%, researchers found.

The study is the first large-scale effort to measure how switching between ethanol and gasoline affects air pollution. It arrives amid a debate in the United States and other industrialized countries over the environmental benefits of ethanol, a renewable fuel made from plant matter.

The study's authors cautioned against applying the findings from Sao Paulo to other major cities, because an area’s specific climate, vehicle fleet, local industry and traffic patterns all play a role. However, the use of meteorological, economic and air-quality data could serve as a template for studying ethanol’s effect on air pollution elsewhere, the authors said.

“Ozone and nitric oxide are both contributors to urban smog, so depending on how well a city is able to mitigate air pollution, ethanol may not be the ‘green fuel’ that it is often called,” said Franz Geiger, a professor of chemistry at Northwestern University who worked on the study.

Ethanol in Brazil is made from sugar cane, and in Sao Paulo, the fuel is E100, or nearly pure ethanol. In the United States, ethanol is mostly made from corn, and nearly all gasoline sold domestically is 10% ethanol by volume, or E10.

Ethanol use in the U.S. gasoline mix was mandated by Congress in 2007 in an effort to cut greenhouse gas emissions and other pollution, and to reduce reliance on imported oil. (In the coming months, the Environmental Protection Agency is expected to announce how much ethanol needs to be made in 2014 under the national renewable fuel standard.)

But ethanol critics contend that its effect on the environment is as bad or worse than oil. A National Academy of Sciences report concluded that the fossil fuel energy sources used to make ethanol and the amount of land devoted to corn cultivation may make ethanol use “ineffective” in reducing greenhouse gases.
About 40% of the corn cultivated in the U.S. goes to ethanol production. That drives up the price of livestock feed and with it, meat, critics say.

Nearly all studies about the environmental effects of ethanol use have relied on computer simulations or other modeling, and some have raised concerns about its effect on public health, said Emily Cassidy, a biofuels research analyst at the Environmental Working Group. “This [latest] study was great because it has on-the-ground data,” she said.

Gasoline prices in Brazil are controlled by the government, but the price of ethanol fluctuates with the market. When ethanol gets more expensive, drivers opt for gasoline.

Alberto Salvo, an economist with National University of Singapore, realized this presented an opportunity to study what effect, if any, the fuel-switching in Sao Paulo has on the environment.
The largest city in the Southern Hemisphere, Sao Paulo has a temperate climate that does not change substantially in the course of the year. It has “limited industrial activity and residential heating” that could contribute significantly to emissions, Salvo and Geiger wrote in their study, but it has lots of cars and persistent gridlock.

The researchers got fuel-sale information to track consumption trends from 2009 to 2011. Government officials provided data from Sao Paulo’s network of air monitoring stations. The researchers also examined meteorological data and traffic information to take account of other factors that may influence the pollution readings.

The authors said they were “very surprised” to see that ozone concentrations got worse as ethanol use rose. That might be because gasoline produces more nitrogen dioxide emissions, Geiger said. At certain high levels, nitrogen dioxide combines with hydroxyl radicals, a short-lived type of atmospheric chemical that cleans the troposphere of ozone, among other pollutants.

However, gasoline caused other problems, the researchers found: When that fuel became more popular, emissions of carbon monoxide and nitrogen oxide rose. (The authors did not study other pollutants, such as fine particles, which are a focus of their next study.)

Geoff Cooper, senior vice president of research and analysis at the Renewable Fuels Assn., an industry group based in Washington, said the Sao Paulo results were not applicable to the U.S.

“Vehicles in the U.S. must comply with emissions controls requirements that are different (and more stringent) than Brazil,” he said in an email. “Further, the ethanol blend levels examined in the study are unique to Brazil and are not approved in the U.S. Finally, urban ozone formation occurs from rather complex photochemistry that is influenced by a number of factors unique to local climates.”

Salvo acknowledged the differences but said “there’s no reason to think this concern about ozone isn’t worth exploring in communities with blended fuel,” such as the U.S.

Roland Hwang, director of the energy and transportation program at the Natural Resources Defense Council, said the study raised important issues for American policymakers.

“While it’s critical that we reduce our oil dependency, we certainly shouldn’t do it in a way that worsens air quality, water quality and carbon pollution,” he said. “It’s important that we better understand what’s driving these results since the conventional wisdom for decades is that higher blends of ethanol burns cleaner than gasoline.”

 

[Nomad.2nd]

nah, it really doesn't. I'm aware that gas prices would affect our national economy tremendously Permantly and it it'd force us to Make drastic changeS as far as how much I have "free"- its just a matter of priorities. there are some things I have to have. fuel in my vehicle is at the top of the list. but other people have medicines, care for family members, well balanced diet, and when fuel goes up.... Ge cost of all goods and services goes up!

I don't have to have: crawfish for dinner twice a week, a pack of smokes everyday, HBO and Starz, broadband internet, etc, etc.

and fwiw: many countries consider anything under ~2 miles "walking distance". Meanwhile, we live in a society that will circle the walmart parking lot 5 times looking for a space twenty feet closer to the door.

FIFY

Many countries are e size of one of our states.

What's that saying? In the US we think 200 years is a long time, and in Europe they think 200 miles is a long way....

 

[sawgrass]

This is a site that I have used to locate stations that offer ethanol free gasoline in LA. Pete Landry, the site owner, was interviewed today for Garland Robinette's "Think Tank" and there will be more on WDSU news @ 6 PM today regarding the reduction of ethanol free gasoline. Check Pete' list of stations in your parish that offer ethanol free gasoline. Remember, before you fill-up, to double check with the station attendant.

http://petelandrysrealgas.com/


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[Leonidas]

Great link! Bookmarked. Thank you.

 

[Dave328]

I saw Stabil mentioned. Here is a link to a little experiment the local Ducati dealer did:
http://ttrno.com/blogs/news/4761782-ethanol-vs-fuel-treatments-k100-success-story

Back story:
The water absorbed by the ethanol in the fuel separates and is absorbed into the nylon gas tank on my and thousands of other Ducati's on the road. The tanks were swelling so bad that they no longer fit on the bikes. But we all know the ill effects of water/ethanol in gas. Bottom line, I used to use Stabil, then Star-tron. Now I only use K100.

 

[Frogman]

This is a real shame.

 

[LNSvince]

Probably gonna hike this, its a shame that we can not start up class action suit against the govt. the use of Ethanol fuel killing our machinery, Boats, lawn equipment, older cars, and off road vehicles, hell even new cars cant stand the stuff.

and YES emissions are WORSE with ethanol.

 

[Abby Normal]

Back to the 1st Question. Where to find Ethanol Free Gas? http://petelandrysrealgas.com/ethanol-gas-list-2/?state=LA&parish=0&city=0&Submit=Apply Pete Landry has a web site that has tons of info on the dangers of ethanol fuel, and a list of the gas stations that carry E0 gas.
Boss, save me some specks.

 

[Jasarii]

Back to the 1st Question. Where to find Ethanol Free Gas? http://petelandrysrealgas.com/ethanol-gas-list-2/?state=LA&parish=0&city=0&Submit=Apply Pete Landry has a web site that has tons of info on the dangers of ethanol fuel, and a list of the gas stations that carry E0 gas.
Boss, save me some specks.

Thanks for the link

 

[Magdump]

My two cents:
I've run seafoam in my motorcycles since ethanol gas was found to be causing problems. Stabil is a fuel stabilizer and the ethanol version does have additives to help combat the effects of ethanol in the tank, but sea foam has worked well for me and most of the motorcycle community can attest to its effectiveness.

Penny number 2:
Refineries are the problem. We don't have enough. The problem was explained to Bill Clinton before it became a problem and it was all laid out for him during his term as POTUS as to when it would become a problem (20 years later) and he said that building more refineries wouldn't make a difference for 20 years... Remarkable insight there Bill.
Texas has such an oil surplus at the moment that they are asking that congress pass a bill to allow oil exports, which was outlawed back in the 70's when OPEC was formed. We could, as a nation actually be totally oil INdependent if we were allowed to drill our own oil. We are not like Venezuela. We do not need to convert our food to fuel. And if we were oil independent, we could watch our economy improve. our gas and diesel are not imported. Our fuel has to be refined here. We've wasted resources building the big ass moonshine stills instead of refineries, so we're stuck with ethanol.

 

[Hogin]

Pure Gas .org is another website to help you find non alcohol fuel. http://pure-gas.org/index.jsp?stateprov=LA

 

[Suburbazine]

To semi-ignore the plight of all the previous posters...

I wish there were more stations selling E85 at the pump.

 

[Emperor]

wherever. i've never understood people that rampage over gas fluctuating 30-50cents per gallon. i have no idea what I pay for gas and I honestly don't care. I'd guess 60 bucks to fill up every week?

if its 3.00 a gallon, i fill up.
if its 4.00 a gallon, i fill up.

what am I going to do, walk?

There are other things worth worrying about imo. spending an extra fifteen bucks to fill up is the least of my problems

Hell the price of dairy has tripled in the last 3 years- no one cries about buying milk.

I'd be just fine seeing it hit 10.00 a gallon. Then it'd be in our financial and political interest to invest in current technology (+getting us off the arabic tit), as opposed to continuing to fund the internal combustion engine which has been technologically obsolete for 50 years.

edit: before some keyboard gladiator swings his e-sword, I realize the internal combustion engine is the most practical and reasonable choice, but it is only so because of our reluctance to change combined with the financial and political weight of oil investors.

$10/gal will be unsustainable. Not because you won't be able to afford to drive to work, but that materials will be priced too high for you to buy groceries.

something for you to think about is: you may not care if ts $3 or $4/gal, but some people have less margin free than you do.

Me: I hate paying it, but I can. I know people carpooling to get to work and skipping meals though.
Not everyone is that bad off, but it STILL impacts retirement saving, vacationing, quality of food, PRICE OF THINGS YOU BUY, etc

Could you imagine how nice it would be for me to drive around town with all those that can't afford the gas off the road?

 

[oleheat]

Could you imagine how nice it would be for me to drive around town with all those that can't afford the gas off the road?

Ever see the new "War Of The Worlds" movie?

 

[Emperor]

Ever see the new "War Of The Worlds" movie?

This is my ultimate goal! And if my wife and kids play their cards right, I might include them.

 

[whitsend]

To semi-ignore the plight of all the previous posters...

I wish there were more stations selling E85 at the pump.

Why?

Even if your vehicle will run it, you get less power and lower fuel economy.

Maybe we should just offer E0 and E85.

 

[fallingbird]

E85 is the poor man's race gas.

 

[buttanic]

E85 is the poor man's race gas.

Only if your engine is designed to take advantage of it.