Question for LEOs and GIs...

[Blackhawk]

The military has taught for many years (going back to Vietnam era) to load M16 mags one or two less than capacity. I've been a military small arms instructor since 1990, and never heard of loading pistol mags to less than capacity.

 

[Vanilla Gorilla]

You have never heard of the widely known and well publicized problems with the Checkmate M9 mags? If you don't mind me asking can you clarify what you mean by a Small Arms Instructor for the Military? The Army has no full-time "Small Arms Instructors" outside of the Cadre at a few schools. Most Small Arms Training is conducted by Drill Sergeants and Small Unit Leaders. At least that has been what I've seen my entire career to this point.

 

[sawgrass]

As a former LEO/GI aka Military Police. Our SOP for carrying the 1911 was one in the pipe with a full mag.

.

 

[charlie12]

The military has taught for many years (going back to Vietnam era) to load M16 mags one or two less than capacity. I've been a military small arms instructor since 1990, and never heard of loading pistol mags to less than capacity.

I must have been off that day

I'm VN era and never heard of that.

 

[Tater]

The military has taught for many years (going back to Vietnam era) to load M16 mags one or two less than capacity. I've been a military small arms instructor since 1990, and never heard of loading pistol mags to less than capacity.

been in ten years and never heard that either....new to me....but i'll still load my mags to capacity...

 

[Vanilla Gorilla]

There is actually an ALARCT out to get all of your Checkmate Mags turned in and replaced if they haven't been already. Doesn't cost your unit a dime. The Depot will do a 1 for 1 swap.

 

[Vanilla Gorilla]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M9_pistol



Google M9 Mag Failures and you will get several pages of various sources.

 

[deuxlatch]

I keep 3 in the clip and 1 in the chamber in the house for that very reason, so as not to compress the spring. If I or my wife can't kill the SOB trying to break into my house with 4 tries then we deserve to be robbed. I've told my wife if I'm not there to empty the clip on him so in case she misses all 4 times he can't turn the gun on her. I ain't worried tho, mamma bear ain't skeered to shoot.

 

[Tater]

I keep 3 in the clip and 1 in the chamber in the house for that very reason, so as not to compress the spring. If I or my wife can't kill the SOB trying to break into my house with 4 tries then we deserve to be robbed. I've told my wife if I'm not there to empty the clip on him so in case she misses all 4 times he can't turn the gun on her. I ain't worried tho, mamma bear ain't skeered to shoot.

what are weapon are you using?

 

[spanky]

I keep 3 in the clip and 1 in the chamber in the house for that very reason, so as not to compress the spring. If I or my wife can't kill the SOB trying to break into my house with 4 tries then we deserve to be robbed. I've told my wife if I'm not there to empty the clip on him so in case she misses all 4 times he can't turn the gun on her. I ain't worried tho, mamma bear ain't skeered to shoot.

What happens if "the SOB" is actually "the SOBs?"

 

[Vanilla Gorilla]

woof

 

[tunatuk]

I keep 3 in the clip and 1 in the chamber in the house for that very reason, so as not to compress the spring. If I or my wife can't kill the SOB trying to break into my house with 4 tries then we deserve to be robbed. I've told my wife if I'm not there to empty the clip on him so in case she misses all 4 times he can't turn the gun on her. I ain't worried tho, mamma bear ain't skeered to shoot.

I really, sincerely hope you are joking.

 

[Blackhawk]

You have never heard of the widely known and well publicized problems with the Checkmate M9 mags? If you don't mind me asking can you clarify what you mean by a Small Arms Instructor for the Military? The Army has no full-time "Small Arms Instructors" outside of the Cadre at a few schools. Most Small Arms Training is conducted by Drill Sergeants and Small Unit Leaders. At least that has been what I've seen my entire career to this point.

Small Arms Instructor: Didn't say "full time". Not an MOS, but an avocation, and lots of fun. Started with the Small Arms Instructor/Range Operations course (SAIROC), then the Master Gunner course. Following is from my course syllabus:


Small Arms Master Gunner Course (SAMGC) MTC-003
SAMGC SCOPE

1. The Small Arms Master Gunner Course (SAMGC) provides an intense learning experience in small arms weapons proficiency, range operations skills, and instructional expertise.

2. Training is focused on live fire range operations and the Army Warrior Tasks pertaining to Individual and Crew Served Weapons (see below). Students also receive instruction on qualification and mobilization courses of fire for small arms. Students must develop and present instructional plans and conduct range operations for each weapon system. Students must pass all written and performance examinations on all weapon systems in order to graduate.

Warrior Task 1 - Qualify with individual assigned weapon
Warrior Task 2 - Operate M240B MG
Warrior Task 3 - Operate M249 MG
Warrior Task 4 - Operate M2 Cal. 50 MG
Warrior Task 5 - Employ Claymore mine and hand grenades
Warrior Task 6 - Engage targets using a night-vision sight
Warrior Task 7 - Engage targets using an aiming light
Warrior Task 22 - Maintain Weapons and Equipment

Where else can you get free ammo, free weapons, and get paid to use them?

 

[Tim67]

I have a question for Law Enforcement Officers and military personnel. Do you carry with your magazine filled to capacity? I was in a deaf chat room last night and argued with this deaf man who said he was in the Army (that should have been my first clue). He insisted that anyone in the military who carries an M9 and ALL Law Enforcement Officers carry about two or three rounds less than the magazine's full capacity to protect the spring of the magazine. I told him that he was incorrect and they probably do carry with the magazine full. He said, "No. Carrying a full magazine will damage the magazine spring so they carry with two or three less." That stupid argument was giving me such a headache, I had to leave.

Am I right? Do LEOs and GIs carry with a full mag?

or

Is that idiot wrong?

Loading M16 mags a couple rounds short was common in the early days, but I don't know if the practice was really necessary or if it persisted for any appreciable time.

 

[bayoupirate]

I thought it was:

Clip = retains ammo as a unit to be feed into weapon. Does not fully enclose ammo.
ie stripper clip

Magazine = encloses ammo and feeds ammo to action, often detachable.

the Garand 8 Round clip doesn't simply load the ammo into the gun's magazine. It also functions to feed the action?

Very interesting.

 

[topgunz1]

Pistol: full capacity, all the time.

Shotgun: Full capacity

Rifle (AR) I actually have 28rds in my 30rd mags, reason being per policy we keep the rifle secured bolt forward on an empty chamber. Having 30rds in the mag can make it harder to insert the mag with the bolt forward.

 

[deuxlatch]

What happens if "the SOB" is actually "the SOBs?"

My weapon of choice is a Sig P220 .45, and chances are in the case of multiple intruders if you drop one the rest will scurry for an escape. That is if the dogs haven't had a snack yet.

 

[charlie12]

My weapon of choice is a Sig P220 .45, and chances are in the case of multiple intruders if you drop one the rest will scurry for an escape. That is if the dogs haven't had a snack yet.

Damn you mean I wasted all that money on ammo. I could just shoot the first BG and the rest would run away.

 

[Hitman]

No more than 28 per MAG.

 

[Hardballing]

Six per CYLINDER.