Restaurant Carry a No-No

[jmcrawf1]

And that would have been an illegal arrest as they had no PC. Just because they saw what was clearly a firearm does not mean the have enough reasonable suspicion to approach and demand a CHP.

Just like when a cop sees you at a red light obviously driving, that is not enough to pull you over just to see if you have a driver's license.

I agree half-assed concealed carry is poor etiquette, but printing is not enough for a less than consensual police encounter.


LEO's, am I off base here?

The derp on this board gives me a headache.


In other words, yes, way off base.

 

[geoney]

The derp on this board gives me a headache.


In other words, yes, way off base.

Perhaps you could add to the discussion instead of just insult?

 

[geoney]

RS 14:95.4 states that by entering an Alcohol Beverage Outlet "ABO", you consent to being searched. If LEO notices someone that appears to be carrying a firearm in an "ABO", that person has already given the LEO consent to search them. The problem with the current interpretation is that it now does not matter if you have a CHP. In the eyes of the Attorney General and the LSP, you are committing a misdemeanor by possessing a firearm in an alcohol beverage outlet.

Again, this is not my interpretation. It is the interpretation of the Attorney General and the Louisiana State Police Concealed Handgun Unit.

Perhaps I missed the point where the Chinese food place was an ABO. If it was, and the LEO's do not understand what a permit entails, then I guess that could be stretched to reasonable suspicion, but it sure seems like a stretch to me. Again, it would be like a cop seeing you on the road, and you are not suppossed to be driving on the road without a license, so he stops just to check.

I am pretty sure most people would agree that is not a valid stop. I am not seeing the difference between walking up to check for a permit and pulling over to check for a DL.

 

[geoney]

RS 14:95.5


§95.5. Possession of firearm on premises of alcoholic beverage outlet

A. No person shall intentionally possess a firearm while on the premises of an alcoholic beverage outlet.

B. "Alcoholic beverage outlet" as used herein means any commercial establishment in which alcoholic beverages of either high or low alcoholic content are sold in individual servings for consumption on the premises, whether or not such sales are a primary or incidental purpose of the business of the establishment.

C. The provisions of this Section shall not apply to the owner or lessee of an alcoholic beverage outlet, or to an employee of such owner or lessee, or to a law enforcement officer or other person vested with law enforcement authority acting in the performance of his official duties.

D. Whoever violates the provisions of this Section shall be fined not more than five hundred dollars or imprisoned for not more than six months, or both.

Acts 1985, No. 765, §1.



As per RS 14:95.4 (D):

An "alcoholic beverage outlet" shall not include a restaurant if a majority of its gross receipts are from sales of food and non-alcoholic beverages.

I spoke to someone at LSP and the AG Office and until the law is changed or a different AG Opinion is rendered this will apply.

Only LEO On Duty Can Legally Carry In An Establishment That Sells Alcoholic Beverages For Consumption On The Premises.

Not For Off Duty LEO Or Anyone With A CHP.

There is an exception for an off duty LEO who responds to a call as he will then be considered on duty. This could vary between LEA's.

I think Steve gets the chicken dinner.

 

[jmcrawf1]

Perhaps you could add to the discussion instead of just insult?

After your dig at "public servants" you want me to school you on case law and the criminal justice system? Nah.

What do you expect from "derps"?

 

[madwabbit]

geezus how is this thread still going on.

its becoming a train wreck on repeat.

 

[geoney]

After your dig at "public servants" you want me to school you on case law and the criminal justice system? Nah.

What do you expect from "derps"?

FYI, my "dig" on "public servants" was aimed at the legislators that drafted the law. I actually spoke to one yesterday that was gleeful he had a "NEW LAW" that he was introducing that would allow any school employee with a permit to carry but not other people with a CHP. When he could not explain why he thought all the cops, military veterans, professional shooters, etc picking up their kids, should not also have the same ability, but the janitor and the lunch lady should, he was kinda speechless. He was also unaware that there were mechanisms already in place for school employees to legally carry on school grounds.

Those were the "public servants" I was referring to. I assumed most people would understand that based on the context of my post. That is my fault. I am sorry you somehow took that to also mean you.

Pretty sure I do not need you to school me; however, I thought you might have something of value to add that actually supported your position that I was unaware of. Seems that was my fault also to expect intelligent discourse. My apologies.


Perhaps some other law enforcement officers would like to give their insight on outside of the premise that a restaurant is an ABO, which the states listed previous pretty clearly show they are not, that a LEO would be legally justified in anything other than a consensual encounter for "poor concealment."

Again, perhaps I am missing something.

Thanks

 

[alpinehyperlite]

LEO (on duty and off) can carry in schools.

 

[charlie12]

LEO (on duty and off) can carry in schools.

Here it is.

C. The provisions of this Section shall not apply to:

(1) A federal law enforcement officer or a Louisiana-commissioned state or local Post Certified law enforcement officer who is authorized to carry a firearm.

 

[jmcrawf1]

FYI, my "dig" on "public servants" was aimed at the legislators that drafted the law. I actually spoke to one yesterday that was gleeful he had a "NEW LAW" that he was introducing that would allow any school employee with a permit to carry but not other people with a CHP. When he could not explain why he thought all the cops, military veterans, professional shooters, etc picking up their kids, should not also have the same ability, but the janitor and the lunch lady should, he was kinda speechless. He was also unaware that there were mechanisms already in place for school employees to legally carry on school grounds.

Those were the "public servants" I was referring to. I assumed most people would understand that based on the context of my post. That is my fault. I am sorry you somehow took that to also mean you.

Pretty sure I do not need you to school me; however, I thought you might have something of value to add that actually supported your position that I was unaware of. Seems that was my fault also to expect intelligent discourse. My apologies.


Perhaps some other law enforcement officers would like to give their insight on outside of the premise that a restaurant is an ABO, which the states listed previous pretty clearly show they are not, that a LEO would be legally justified in anything other than a consensual encounter for "poor concealment."

Again, perhaps I am missing something.

Thanks

Maybe you misunderstood, you're comment about reasonable suspicion was outright wrong. Yes, you need schooling. No I wont give it to you. Thanks for the diatribe.


-your humble "public servant"

 

[Judge Mental]

This is what i was told in class, the threshold being 51% of the business' revenue being generated by alcohol sales.

i was 'told' by a chl instructor that alcohol can't be the primary bidness. So, you can carry to pick up a food order in a restaurant that serves alcohol, but stay away from a bar that serves food... What is the law? Class a license is consumption on premise i think.

I would like to know, i really like that grilled chicken sandwich from a local place with a class a...

 

[Gary Slider]

Handgunlaw.us states "NO" for carry in restaurants as the head of the LA Firearms Unit stated just that. Over the last couple years we have talked via phone more than once and via email numerous times. Every time he stated it was illegal under LA Law to carry in any establishment that serves alcohol. He also told me that there has been a long discussion on the conflicting laws about restaurants inside the State Police and AG's Office. It should be ironed out one way or the other but two laws/rules that conflict are not the way to run anything and especially a state. Handgunlaw.us will continue to list Restaurants that serve alcohol as off limits for LA as that is what the legal authorities are telling me. I don't want to be responsible for someone getting arrested and maybe losing their gun rights for the rest of their lives.

 

[Dishonored]

I spoke with a candidate that will be running for AG in 2015 last night at a function my grandfather put on. I told him it would be nice to get something other than a AG opinion on this and a couple other things. We exchanged numbers and he will get with me later to see what can be done to clear the muddy waters.

Btw his name is Marty Maley and seems like a decent man for he job, he seems to really want to do good and isn't a career politician.

 

[Robhic]

Btw his name is Marty Maley and seems like a decent man for he job, he seems to really want to do good and isn't a career politician.

None of 'em are "career politicians" until they're in office for 5, 10, 20 years and then it has become a career. None of our clowns in Washington (at least not most of them) were career politicians OR millionaires (!!!) before they became career politicians and millionaires. I wonder how that happened? Not dumping on your candidate, I just have a really bad taste for ALL politicians after the nonsense and BS that has been infesting DC for a while. You can't trust any of those self-important ass-clowns.

 

[madwabbit]

None of 'em are "career politicians" until they're in office for 5, 10, 20 years and then it has become a career. None of our clowns in Washington (at least not most of them) were career politicians OR millionaires (!!!) before they became career politicians and millionaires. I wonder how that happened? Not dumping on your candidate, I just have a really bad taste for ALL politicians after the nonsense and BS that has been infesting DC for a while. You can't trust any of those self-important ass-clowns.

The best thing I ever heard proposed was that NO incumbent should be eligible for re-election so long as the nation goes without an agreed budget or financial plan.

Figure it out or you're all fired.

 

[Dishonored]

None of 'em are "career politicians" until they're in office for 5, 10, 20 years and then it has become a career. None of our clowns in Washington (at least not most of them) were career politicians OR millionaires (!!!) before they became career politicians and millionaires. I wonder how that happened? Not dumping on your candidate, I just have a really bad taste for ALL politicians after the nonsense and BS that has been infesting DC for a while. You can't trust any of those self-important ass-clowns.

Try to make it out to a political rally of his and just form your opinion that way.
There is also a guy by the name of Rob Maness. He is going after Landrieu's position, he is a prior service member. Check out this link to see some of his thoughts vs the others.
http://robmaness.com/candidate-comparison

 

[oleheat]

Term limits would be great.


The problem is the only guys who can make that happen don't want their terms limited- and have enough fools in their districts to keep them dug in like a tick.

 

[Peacemaker]

So.. Can you legally carry or not in restaurant that serves alcohol?

 

[Dishonored]

Term limits would be great.


The problem is the only guys who can make that happen don't want their terms limited- and have enough fools in their districts to keep them dug in like a tick.

Also is industry support. With the energy bill Landrieu is supporting she is being embraced by the oil and gas industry's big boys.

 

[CCW]

According to the Louisiana State Police Concealed Handgun Unit, the answer is no, it is not legal to carry in any establishment that serves alcohol for consumption on the premises. Their answer is based on the Louisiana State Attorney General Opinon #13-0109, which states that only the owner, an employee or a law enforcement officer in the performance of their official duty can possess a firearm in an establishment that serves alcohol. This is their opinion that others may or may not agree with.

According to JBP55 in another thread, this AG opinion is under review by the AG's office. The State Police waiting for the a revised opinion to be issued. They will then abide by whatever new opinion, if any, is issued.

Clear as mud to me...