This Is One of Those Gray Areas In Arrests

[Emperor]

Just saw this and thought this was a good subject for debate.

As you read the whole story, and if her account along with her witness in the car with her are correct, ask yourself;

What was the driver supposed to do?
Why so much of a show of force on an alcohol sting?
Drawing guns?
80 days to investigate this?
If you were the driver, would you have done anything differently?

http://dailycaller.com/2013/06/29/uva-student-jailed-for-possession-of-bottled-water-ice-cream/

 

[Leonidas]

Good bust.

I trained my two daughters to comply with any group of men claiming to be police, uniformed or not. Even more so if it is dark. It could save their lives. Especially if the assailants are LE.

 

[Crimson]

Over reaction by the officers.

 

[Emperor]

Good bust.

I trained my two daughters to comply with any group of men claiming to be police, uniformed or not. Even more so if it is dark. It could save their lives. Especially if the assailants are LE.

As amusing as that is, this situation and the events that unfolded afterwards really have me scratching my head.

And, she fled with the officers around the car. How close did she come to being shot for being considered a threat to the officers with the car?

 

[JNieman]

So what's the safe thing to do? Obviously we hear of cases where people impersonate cops to try and rape/murder easy targets.

What reaction do the police have if you ask them to stay back and request a uniformed officer be called? What can a woman walking by herself at night do, when confronted with a handful of aggressive people in plain clothes if she doesn't think/realize they're police?

I always thought the only thing I could do if I ever felt suspicion was to request another officer, or a supervisor, or someone to come assist. Though I'm not exactly the likely target of that type of predators, I don't think.

 

[Emperor]

So what's the safe thing to do? Obviously we hear of cases where people impersonate cops to try and rape/murder easy targets.

What reaction do the police have if you ask them to stay back and request a uniformed officer be called? What can a woman walking by herself at night do, when confronted with a handful of aggressive people in plain clothes if she doesn't think/realize they're police?

I always thought the only thing I could do if I ever felt suspicion was to request another officer, or a supervisor, or someone to come assist. Though I'm not exactly the likely target of that type of predators, I don't think.

If they started trying to smash your windows in, I guess you would then have to make a decision sooner.

 

[Leonidas]

As amusing as that is, this situation and the events that unfolded afterwards really have me scratching my head.

And, she fled with the officers around the car. How close did she come to being shot for being considered a threat to the officers with the car?

I don't get your confusion. The message is clear. Always comply. If the assailants are bad guys, its a coin toss of how bad the consequences will be. If they are LE and you don't comply, the consequences are likely to be far worse.

Collateral damage is just the price we pay for an efficient police state. And to winning the "War on Beer."

It is irrelevant that it is often impossible to know the good guys from the bad guys, uniformed or not.

 

[Emperor]

I don't get your confusion. The message is clear. Always comply. If the assailants are bad guys, its a coin toss of how bad the consequences will be. If they are LE and you don't comply, the consequences are likely to be far worse.

Collateral damage is just the price we pay for an efficient police state. And to winning the "War on Beer."

It is irrelevant that it is often impossible to know the good guys from the bad guys, uniformed or not.

This could have gone really badly for her. If the agents drew guns because she couldn't identify them as LE, and she was scared to allow them to get to her; and then she hits the gas out of her confusion and fright; how many times have we seen/heard the police unloading on the driver when they perceived the driver was a threat to an officer's safety in a fleeing vehicle?

The fact that this is from an alcohol issue, is even scarier.

 

[oleheat]

Police admit that one of the high-strung agents vaulted onto the hood of Daly’s car. She contends that one of them also drew a gun.

 

[mcinfantry]

Rise up & shout
Moron Labia!

 

[Bayoupiper]

This goes on all the time in Baton Rouge.

City ABC, State ATC both work underage compliance.

And they do it in plain clothes.
Dealing with college kids and their crap is just part of it.

That doesn't excuse the actions of overzealous agents in these situations.
There was an incident in Shreveport many years ago where an overzealous officer's actions turned a misdemeanor possession charge into deadly force encounter.
Fortunately no shots were fired, but the DA did toss the charges.

If you are going to work in plainclothes you have to understand the dynamics involved and take extra steps to ensure crap like this does not occur.
I had plenty of occasions that I took the extra time to makes sure the person I was dealing with was comfortable that I was LEO.
All it takes is a few extra minutes.
There is no rush.
You also have to weigh the "crime" against outcome.
As shown above, the police officer should never escalate the situation.
But it does happen sometimes despite their best efforts.



Now, the other side of the coin.

Every college student thinks they are a bar certified lawyer and will act the fool whenever they are confronted.
They will go out of their way to be the biggest assholes on the face of this earth.
I watched two girls from Tulane get fed to a brick wall by NOPD and they deserved every bit of it.
Many times it is the student that escalates the situation way beyond what it is.
And that is solely their fault and responsibility.


As always, the truth is somewhere in the middle.


I do like the way the article says the agents "ambushed" them.



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[JR1572]

Rise up & shout
Moron Labia!

Fight the power!

Moron Labia!

Derp derp!

JR1572

 

[JR1572]

I bet if they had their Kung-Fu weapons the ABC apocalypse wouldn't have never happened.

Moron Labia!

JR1572

 

[JNieman]

lol, I love that 'moron labia' has taken off, here.


However, on the less-tarded side of things, do any y'all cops have any comment/advice on my curiosity:

So what's the safe thing to do? Obviously we hear of cases where people impersonate cops to try and rape/murder easy targets, and some women are very nervous/fearful of that. What reaction do/should the police have if you ask them to stay back and request a uniformed officer be called? What can a woman walking by herself at night do, when confronted with a handful of aggressive people in plain clothes if she doesn't think/realize they're police?

 

[Bayoupiper]

lol, I love that 'moron labia' has taken off, here.


However, on the less-tarded side of things, do any y'all cops have any comment/advice on my curiosity:

As I said, a plainclothes officer shouldn't mind taking the time to properly identify themselves.

Given there is time to do so.

But in this type of situation there is always time.





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[Emperor]

I do like the way the article says the agents "ambushed" them.

.

I detected a smidgen of bias too! Particularly here;

The student, 20-year-old Elizabeth Daly, made the mistake of walking to her car with bottled water, cookie dough and ice cream in a dark supermarket parking lot near the UVA campus, reports The Daily Progress

Sounds eerily similar to a certain description associated with Skittles and a soda!?!

I assume that The Daily Progress can also be referred in kind as the Daily Dose of Douche in those circles.

Though more details need to be known, at face value she is not being offered up as a wordy "I know my Rights" type.

 

[oleheat]

I wonder if she told them all who her daddy was?

 

[Unclee1]

I guess they are also lucky she wasn't a CCW holder. Things could have been a lot worse for all involved.

 

[Bayoupiper]

This long JR!





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[4sooth]

We had a serial rapist here for some months back in the early eighties. He was tall, neatly (semi-officially) dressed, drove a car of the general type used by local police, had a badge, dashboard light and all the things an average citizen would look for relative to a plainclothes officer. Using these things he kidnapped six women and drove them to remote locations and later had them drop him off near the place he originally stopped them. He got off!! Long story. At that time I was a reserve officer. Just before his capture my partner and I had a car and driver which perfectly matched the perp's pull us over and represent him self as a cop. When we asked what agency he was with the chase was on!! Turned out to be a 17 year old and his buddy. The girl with them was on her first ever (out with a boy in a car) date!! Mom and dad had to come and get them at 2:00 am from the station. Because of these events and more I have always taught my wife and daughters to NEVER pull over for an unmarked car and not to interface with anyone in plainclothes. If they are driving they are to immediately head for the police station while calling 911 and explaining an unmarked car is trying to stop them and ask if it is legitimate. If they are on foot they are to ask for a uniformed officer to come to the location along with a supervisor. Fake police events are common--but most of them never get into the media.