'Voice of Reason' Mike Tyson gives his thoughts on Martin case....
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jimdana1942
oldtimer
Hey Mike, stand still a minute will yuh, while I check the zero on my .500!
charliepapa
Clandestine Sciuridae
not to me!
No more so than his opposames as they weren't there, either and I'm certain pretty mean thoughts and statements are being flung with abandon as well.
At some point you ignore the "white noise" (random broad frequency not race-related).
If you read the article you will find the answer to be "no".
I just thought some of you would like to hear the enchanted musings from one of boxing's truly fascinating intellectuals.
My only question is, what took them so long to seek his thoughts and wisdom for finding the path to a peaceful common ground???
My only question is, what took them so long to seek his thoughts and wisdom for finding the path to a peaceful common ground???
Sin-ster
GM of 4 Letter Outbursts
I'm sure you're correct, and they're doing it *in private*.
The key reasons you don't have a jillion videos and statements to point to: 1) a double-standard of acceptability, and 2) tact.
#1 applies to the real idiots who truly just see skin color; #2 applies to the, shall we say... more pragmatic.
I have so very much to say on this subject, in terms of specifics and overriding themes alike... But I just don't feel comfortable doing it on a public forum.
One (of my two) oldest and best friends in the world is black, as are several other dear and trusted friends in my life. I'm an equal opportunity hater of stupidity and inconsideration for others, though-- so it's VERY easy to mistake that for racism, especially in a city/state with the make-up of our own and when statistically (through consequence, injustice, or otherwise), one specific group fits that bill more often than another (in my daily life).
jimdana1942
oldtimer
I'm sure you're correct, and they're doing it *in private*.
The key reasons you don't have a jillion videos and statements to point to: 1) a double-standard of acceptability, and 2) tact.
#1 applies to the real idiots who truly just see skin color; #2 applies to the, shall we say... more pragmatic.
I have so very much to say on this subject, in terms of specifics and overriding themes alike... But I just don't feel comfortable doing it on a public forum.
One (of my two) oldest and best friends in the world is black, as are several other dear and trusted friends in my life. I'm an equal opportunity hater of stupidity and inconsideration for others, though-- so it's VERY easy to mistake that for racism, especially in a city/state with the make-up of our own and when statistically (through consequence, injustice, or otherwise), one specific group fits that bill more often than another (in my daily life).
What, in more simple terms, did you say? I don't get it. Sorry.
I'm sure you're correct, and they're doing it *in private*.
The key reasons you don't have a jillion videos and statements to point to: 1) a double-standard of acceptability, and 2) tact.
#1 applies to the real idiots who truly just see skin color; #2 applies to the, shall we say... more pragmatic.
I have so very much to say on this subject, in terms of specifics and overriding themes alike... But I just don't feel comfortable doing it on a public forum.
One (of my two) oldest and best friends in the world is black, as are several other dear and trusted friends in my life. I'm an equal opportunity hater of stupidity and inconsideration for others, though-- so it's VERY easy to mistake that for racism, especially in a city/state with the make-up of our own and when statistically (through consequence, injustice, or otherwise), one specific group fits that bill more often than another (in my daily life).
I grew up working with black folks ...we did the same job and didn't get the same pay, that was wrong...I bitched but kept my job. This went from the black people I worked with and was friends with ...to they got better treatment just cuz of Blk...and I didn't care b/c I thought they deserved equal for equal.
Long time to realize that what affirmative action went WAY too far into over swing.
Covers a lot of years in a few words...when we the people tried to make up for the wrong of slavery we were walked right past justice into accepting revenge.
Sucks...but it's gonna come.
Hint: you're (Whites) are under attack by the very same forces you (as a whole) don't understand - and many don't wish to. They already control much of the Black leadership and those they don't control they label "mad".
Choosing to learn your history and preserve your culture - lose these and you're DONE.
If you choose to affiliate with your own race and culture that IS NOT A BAD THING. Is it any different than Blacks, Jews or Hispanics who choose the same? Simply DO NOT ACCEPT THE LABELS. I adore YOUR history and have a library devoted to the Eurasian Tribes. One thing I've noticed: the more one knows about "others" the less distrust, angst, fear (or whatever it is) one has. I accept the things I adore AND REJECT WHAT I DON'T.
Teach your family and friends - especially the children. Blacks were written out of history books in the US in the 1920s and 30s; it negatively affects self esteem. Learn from us.
One thing that WORKS. When you see a Black person look him or her in the eyes and speak: "Good morning, brother." No "hip" intonations. Watch - or rather FEEL the response. I notice the same when I'm amongst the Arabs. They always respond. For those of you I really care for I sometimes address you as brother and I mean it.
Racism (I know no better word but our definition a incorrect) dies one person at a time.
For those that we'd rather not be around, addressing them as "brother" o "sister", gives them some pause if they have a soul.
Just tonight I was being eyeballed by two white guys who were of very low breeding and culture as I was at the checkout counter at Walgreen's. I could sense the potential trouble and made a note of which one appeared to be the leader and would initiate any hostility. And while I was prepared to "go to blows" with them if it was initiated something inside blurted out, "How y'all brothers doing?" They paused, glanced at each other and responded, "uh, we alright."
I KNOW they were thinking unclean thoughts - BUT acknowledging that you have no quarrel with their perceived differences makes a difference.
Hell, I get taken aback, too.
I assume everyone here is a shooter. As such you are ALL brothers and sisters to me no matter the hard conversations. When I met Paul Gomez I recall the first thing he said was, "How's it going, brother?" And I knew.
Actually, we have a mutual friend so I KNEW he was a helluva guy but SMALL THINGS GO LONG WAYS.
Some may ask what if the guy spat on the floor when I spoke. That's okay. My blade was in my hand and my trusty sidearm was where she is supposed to be. Rarely has addressing someone with respect brought anything but respect.
Try it. It goes a long way.
Choosing to learn your history and preserve your culture - lose these and you're DONE.
If you choose to affiliate with your own race and culture that IS NOT A BAD THING. Is it any different than Blacks, Jews or Hispanics who choose the same? Simply DO NOT ACCEPT THE LABELS. I adore YOUR history and have a library devoted to the Eurasian Tribes. One thing I've noticed: the more one knows about "others" the less distrust, angst, fear (or whatever it is) one has. I accept the things I adore AND REJECT WHAT I DON'T.
Teach your family and friends - especially the children. Blacks were written out of history books in the US in the 1920s and 30s; it negatively affects self esteem. Learn from us.
One thing that WORKS. When you see a Black person look him or her in the eyes and speak: "Good morning, brother." No "hip" intonations. Watch - or rather FEEL the response. I notice the same when I'm amongst the Arabs. They always respond. For those of you I really care for I sometimes address you as brother and I mean it.
Racism (I know no better word but our definition a incorrect) dies one person at a time.
For those that we'd rather not be around, addressing them as "brother" o "sister", gives them some pause if they have a soul.
Just tonight I was being eyeballed by two white guys who were of very low breeding and culture as I was at the checkout counter at Walgreen's. I could sense the potential trouble and made a note of which one appeared to be the leader and would initiate any hostility. And while I was prepared to "go to blows" with them if it was initiated something inside blurted out, "How y'all brothers doing?" They paused, glanced at each other and responded, "uh, we alright."
I KNOW they were thinking unclean thoughts - BUT acknowledging that you have no quarrel with their perceived differences makes a difference.
Hell, I get taken aback, too.
I assume everyone here is a shooter. As such you are ALL brothers and sisters to me no matter the hard conversations. When I met Paul Gomez I recall the first thing he said was, "How's it going, brother?" And I knew.
Actually, we have a mutual friend so I KNEW he was a helluva guy but SMALL THINGS GO LONG WAYS.
Some may ask what if the guy spat on the floor when I spoke. That's okay. My blade was in my hand and my trusty sidearm was where she is supposed to be. Rarely has addressing someone with respect brought anything but respect.
Try it. It goes a long way.
Sin-ster
GM of 4 Letter Outbursts
And if the culture is destructive, or stagnant, or just generally not very pleasant?
Moreover, I disagree with the thought that vastly different cultures can coexist in the same relative space. As neighbors in the sense of sovereign states... perhaps. As neighbors in the sense of a single nation (state, parish, city, neighborhood), not so much. You wanna talk history-- that's something that has NEVER happened, no matter how much legislation was passed in an attempt to force it. (Sub-cultures and such aside, to some degree.)
Idealistically speaking, I personally believe the only logical approach to the issue is to GTF over the past and start living for today. In a perfect world where people were capable of that type of thing, and one could throw a switch and make it happen, the REAL driving force that keeps us all divided would be completely left in the dust. (That force being history itself, and the residual socio-economic effects that carry on today. If the former is forgotten, the latter can be corrected as a group of "brothers and sisters", like you propose.) It's one thing to say "celebrate the differences, and what makes every group special"; it's another to eliminate the human propensity to turn that into "but our differences make us better than you", especially with a history of domination/subjugation to support or inflame those notions.
Realistically speaking-- ain't never gonna happen, period. So let (human) nature run its course, for better or (quite likely) worse... Or nut up, face facts, and start making some hard decisions. Race does not have to exclude one from a culture, in the more grand definition of the latter term. I forget who said it, or even the theory to which it belongs... but there's a darn intriguing quote about the possibility of "young men in the Middle East listening to rap music on their iPods and drinking a Coca Cola while constructing IEDs to plant in major Western cities." A lot going on there, in terms of both blending two cultures as well as just sharing the most important elements of a single one.
I think in your case, Mjolinir, the history and culture of your past is vastly different from the culture that outsiders associate with black Americans today. For that matter, it's vastly different than the culture that many (most?) black Americans currently consider their own. IOW-- you've got about as much in common with that cultural group as I do, and it has absolutely nothing to do with the color of our respective skins. Even if we didn't share a single common value or viewpoint, IMO, we'd still be brothers based on the fact that we are able to think about these things (rationally) and consider the position and arguments of the other side from an objective stand point. Those old Greek dudes always talked about "rational man", not "rational whitey."
But I'm a cold utilitarian like that. You're either 1) working towards the greater good, 2) not impeding progress in that direction... or 3) you need to GTFO of the way. (Yes, that includes me!) That old question of "could you sacrifice one child to save a million more?" Yessir-- and twice on Sunday, even if the child was mine or (MUCH more easily) if that child was ME. BUT... I'd need written assurance from the omnipotent, in triplicate, that said sacrifice would accomplish the goal, AND that in the long run, the million saved were a better value than the one lost. If the one could have saved 10 million more on their own, or cured cancer or some such-- no effing deal! (Ahh, hypotheticals are fun!)
ETA-- How HILARIOUS is it that this conversation stemmed from a thread about Mike Tyson??? He couldn't spell 10 words in this thread, even if you included his own name in the list...
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Sin-ster
GM of 4 Letter Outbursts
There's lots of white folks saying the same thing (inverted) that these black folks are saying. They're just doing it in private because it's not acceptable to state on TV, and/or they've got more tact.
I'm not a racist; I hate jerks, leaches and dumb azzes no matter what the color of their skin. However, here in NOLA, it would be very easy to mistake me for a racist. We have a very large African American population, so I am exposed to said jerks, leaches and dumb azzes of that persuasion quite often. Further, in my daily life, they are statistically more likely fall into one of those three categories than their Caucasian, Asian, Hispanic, or Middle Eastern counterparts. This has absolutely nothing to do with the color of their skin, but more the conditions of their lives.
Admittedly, my first attempt to clarify all of this wasn't very cogent.
I've been sick for 5 days, for the first time in at least 2 years, and have accumulated no more than 70 hours of sleep in the past 14 days; cut me some slack! 
Fixed it for ya!!
I would love to see this thread with just the two of you debating. The both of you can write very eloquently!!! It is nice to see that for a change.
