Gun Elephant In The Room $$$$$

[70mikenike70]

Ok we all know how this world is brutal and prices on our 2nd Amendment are ridiculously rocketing up and down. One of our most purchased and popular rifles is the AR 15. We know prices can get as low as $350 all the way up to $10,000…. Some people think you gotta have this thousand dollar AR with thousands of dollars worth of optics to be the best shooter in the world…. It’s quite ridiculous and we all know it!!!! You can build one, you can buy one… But I want to get down to the nitty gritty and address the elephant in the room and be completely honest with each other and admit our good ole government is causing the prices to fluctuate so crazily that it’s making me sick. They use school shootings, mass shootings, and anything that goes boom to spread panic… They claim that they are going to start banning this, they are gonna start banning that, then they threaten to put such high taxes on our sporting rifles that everyone goes into an absolute panic and boom the prices skyrocket… Ammo starts flying off the shelves so fast you would think the gun stores didn’t care or didn’t order enough product because they didn’t care.. The market starts booming for a few months and people start posting these $350-$500 AR15’s for $1500+ and expect to get that much.. It’s ridiculous needless to say and we are only making them richer… It dies down and the prices drop because nobody is paying these outrageous prices.. people start posting questions like “man I don’t get it, they aren’t even interested in paying over triple for what that rifle or ammo costs…”. But that’s not the worst part either. People bad mouth Palmetto State Armory and say you need a Daniel Defense or Knights Armament… The sad part is if you bought both AR15’s at the same time and stripped them down you would be surprised that both rifles are coming from the same factory and same distributors and they just slapped different logos on them before they shipped them out… They are sourced from most of the same companies and we are just getting duped into thinking we will be shooting more accurate because we spent a few thousand dollars… They play us against each other. Go look on BayouShooter or LA Spotsman and you will see some Palmetto rifles for $1500 or trade for a Sticatto or a vehicle… It’s getting out of hand. And let’s not talk about all the scammers on LA Sportsman… ‍‍ Anyone have any feedback on this topic?

 

[buttanic]

Popcorn anyone.

 

[Bigchillin83]

i agree with ya... i guess its diff strokes for diff folks....

we all could be like Vietnam and use a little 50cc moped to get to work, but some people can afford the luxury of $80,000+ drive way queen 4x4's... or some wives are happy with a simple $75 gold band and others want a $20,000+ ring... same thing with tools, some people can make it work with walmart tools and some people need mac tools or snap-on lol

"gotta pay the cost to be the boss"

 

[Bam Bam]

I agree completely! I don't buy name brand "just because" of the brand name on it. I work for a company that sells a product thats a name brand but thats not any better than others just because of the name. I don't spend any more than necessary on things. Just my .02 cents.

 

[AdvancedLaser]

Speaking from someone that works with metals and has pretty good gun knowledge., it also includes QA/QC and metallurgy. When you buy Aero and Palmetto you are getting lower quality metals and less QA/QC of the big names. They are more accepting of out of spec parts than companies like BCM, that check spec/tolerances on EVERY single rifle they produce. That all costs money, so does better metals, so does ISO9001 compliance, so does high end HAAS tooling.

There is a difference in end users too. Aero and Palmetto are hobby guns and priced accordingly, you would never use them for real world battle, and certainly not rely on for life saving. Colt, BCM, LWRC are guns that cost more for a reason. The people that post Aero and Palmetto guns for premium prices are delusional or just don't understand the market. They also only sell to the uninformed.

A real world example is the training group I was a part of. We unfortunately used Rock River rifles. Of the issues we had were 40+ rifles with no expansion area cut from the chamber to the lands and grooves. Literally the projectiles were sitting on the lands and grooves when they chambered and primers were blowing because they didn't properly cut the barrels or even monitor QA/QC on them and turned them out like that. Rock River sent an armorer down to us and he said "I brought full uppers to swap, I'm not even bore scoping them, I know its an issue," and swapped them all out. Also, every class we were assured to blow at least one or two extractors, and every few classes a cam pin. Once we went to BCM bolts it stopped happening. Rock River is a hobby gun, not meant for serious use beyond weekends on the farm, BCM is different.

You are correct that they source a ton of parts from the same vendor (Barnes Precision) but not the critical parts. Buying a castle nut from Barnes and then producing your own barrels (FN/USA) is not the same as making them all in house with poor standards.

 

[machinedrummer]

I would rather see a free American owning a PSA over nothing at all because money is the issue. Rule #1 in a gunfight (or times of tyranny) is to…..

 

[themcfarland]

There are differences in both quality and purpose. for the common user, you may never shoot the barrel out of a cheaper gun even, but for those who run them, you will see a difference. There are reasons why folks who have fought that **** show , are strongly opinionated on the subject. I agree, Id rather everyone have access to an ar variant, than not, but please buy spare parts..

 

[WhereIsIt?]

I'll just stick with my 30-30...tried and true hunting and home defense rifle.

Tactitools and blanket statements... Welcome to Bayoushooter.

 

[Magdump]

I would rather see a free American owning a PSA over nothing at all because money is the issue. Rule #1 in a gunfight (or times of tyranny) is to…..

Yeah, if you buy PSA grab the ones with those hearty FN CHF barrels and tac it out however you wish. Mine have served me well.

 

[Martman300]

It’s called capitalism Mike,

The prices will sort themselves out.

I see guys on here swearing someone is selling a firearm way too high since they saw it years ago for $489, they think in their mind it’s a $400 gun.

In reality it’s a $600 gun once you add shipping, transfer fees, and of course tax, or bought at the LGS for $549 & tax.

Yet some guys will swear it’s a $400 gun.

Only to see them attempt to do the same, build or try something out and try to get their money back.


Like their PSA firearm or Glock is worth more than the other guys.

In the end price and demand will always fluctuate. I’ll take this over the alternative any day.

 

[Jstudz220]

It’s called capitalism Mike,

The prices will sort themselves out.

I see guys on here swearing someone is selling a firearm way too high since they saw it years ago for $489, they think in their mind it’s a $400 gun.

In reality it’s a $600 gun once you add shipping, transfer fees, and of course tax, or bought at the LGS for $549 & tax.

Yet some guys will swear it’s a $400 gun.

Only to see them attempt to do the same, build or try something out and try to get their money back.


Like their PSA firearm or Glock is worth more than the other guys.

In the end price and demand will always fluctuate. I’ll take this over the alternative any day.

A lot of guys look at firearms like cars. Once you take possession of it and leave the area you purchased it from the price depreciates. Especially if the gun was fired.

 

[Mitch Dufour]

Minute of milk jug AR's shot a few times a year will work for a lot of people, but sub MOA to run a few times a month is what others want.

Ain't capitalism great?

 

[70mikenike70]

I'll just stick with my 30-30...tried and true hunting and home defense rifle.

Tactitools and blanket statements... Welcome to Bayoushooter.

Yeeeeeees!!!! I totally agree!

 

[Martman300]

A lot of guys look at firearms like cars. Once you take possession of it and leave the area you purchased it from the price depreciates. Especially if the gun was fired.

Very true!

Some also see them as real estate, they want fair market value, it may be hire or lower.

Other just want an appreciated price.

Capitalism always adjusts the price in the end.

Better than the liberals idea, that no one can buy or sell them.

 

[dantheman]

Your comments on the Rock River AR's is troubling . Ascension Parish SO issued RR's to their Deputies .

 

[DBMJR1]

I've sold a few AR's.

For the average user, a $600 Delton or other, is all they'll ever need.
Don't forget that they'll need to spend another $300-$400 for an economical optic.
Mags and ammo. They're well over a grand.
That's still a lot of money to a lot of people.

A better rifle won't make you great shooter.

Once you've worn out the cheap rifle, you should consider something better.

 

[Jstudz220]

Speaking from someone that works with metals and has pretty good gun knowledge., it also includes QA/QC and metallurgy. When you buy Aero and Palmetto you are getting lower quality metals and less QA/QC of the big names. They are more accepting of out of spec parts than companies like BCM, that check spec/tolerances on EVERY single rifle they produce. That all costs money, so does better metals, so does ISO9001 compliance, so does high end HAAS tooling.

There is a difference in end users too. Aero and Palmetto are hobby guns and priced accordingly, you would never use them for real world battle, and certainly not rely on for life saving. Colt, BCM, LWRC are guns that cost more for a reason. The people that post Aero and Palmetto guns for premium prices are delusional or just don't understand the market. They also only sell to the uninformed.

A real world example is the training group I was a part of. We unfortunately used Rock River rifles. Of the issues we had were 40+ rifles with no expansion area cut from the chamber to the lands and grooves. Literally the projectiles were sitting on the lands and grooves when they chambered and primers were blowing because they didn't properly cut the barrels or even monitor QA/QC on them and turned them out like that. Rock River sent an armorer down to us and he said "I brought full uppers to swap, I'm not even bore scoping them, I know its an issue," and swapped them all out. Also, every class we were assured to blow at least one or two extractors, and every few classes a cam pin. Once we went to BCM bolts it stopped happening. Rock River is a hobby gun, not meant for serious use beyond weekends on the farm, BCM is different.

You are correct that they source a ton of parts from the same vendor (Barnes Precision) but not the critical parts. Buying a castle nut from Barnes and then producing your own barrels (FN/USA) is not the same as making them all in house with poor standards.

I can agree with almost everything you said with the exception of stripped lowers or uppers being made from a different metal? As far as I know with the exception of the handful of polymer lowers on the market 7075 T6 aluminum is what’s used right? Maybe different grades of 7075 T6 aluminum or different finishes applied but it’s the same metal at the end of the day. Even then though we know all of these uppers/ lowers are forged by the same handful of companies. The way I understood it was the item may be coming from the same manufacturer but the higher quality ones go through more QQ/QA. For example BCM uses microbest as an oem for BCG’s. You can also find microbest BCG’s for about $100 cheaper than what you can find a BCM one for. The cheaper one or less desirable one just goes through less QQ/QA before being sold.

 

[Jstudz220]

Your comments on the Rock River AR's is troubling . Ascension Parish SO issued RR's to their Deputies .

I’m sure they are more than suitable for what APSO will be using them for. In reality they could probably issue the cheapest know and still be fine for what they will be used for. Big difference in a LEO rifle opposed to a rifle that will be used in combat.

 

[Manimal]

The difference in finish between a PSA and a BCM is significant. That said, I have never had a PSA fail to fire or cycle unless it was a caliber/mag issue (like a .300BLK in an M2 Pmag).

Some of you have a lot higher round count with an AR than me, maybe most of you. I was an AK guy when I trained regularly.

It is better to have A gun than 0 guns. If you want a rifle that feels amazing and runs reliable and you can afford it, get a broken in upper end rifle. If you want a gun that runs reliable and you don't care if it is sexy, you just want to get a gun that fits most people's budgets, get a PSA/BCA or something like that and train your butt off. It will probably run reliable right out of the box because the tolerances are looser and more forgiving. No, you will not shoot someone in the eye at 350yds under fire. You're probably not going to do that with a $30,000 AR made out of forged unobtanium either, unless you train multiple times a year a minimum.

I would venture to guess that a PSA/BCA rifle is of equal or higher quality than many of the rifles used by insurgents and 3rd world militants across the world, and they have been handing 1st world nations their butts for decades while wearing rags and foot-stomped and hand-hammered forged receivers.

It would be better to have a PSA that you've put 4000rds down range with, because you can afford to train, than a decked out top end make every range monkey drool BCM/Geissele that you could only afford to run a couple mags through.

An 5.56 AR is a questionable first choice to bring to combat anyway. Get an AK if you want a solid war rifle, or a semi-.308. An AR is better suited for training children than as a stand-alone battle rifle.

An AR is a smart gun to have because there are millions of people actively using/owning them every day for work and home, they are politically correct "evil" guns...where as an AK fetches you some instantly horrible social designations and stigma as a terrorist.


As far as prices:
The economy is really odd right now, we just got through a couple of years of fear mongering and psychological warfare against us. People want to get what they paid for things, because things are so uncertain right now...it is not a time of plenty. There are people on here that are selling things for 2x the Ebay "buy it now" prices, or who are just marking things up for the effort/time it took them to acquire them. (I don't want to eat the taxes on my ammo, or the shipping cost, for instance.)

It is what it is.

 

[AdvancedLaser]

Your comments on the Rock River AR's is troubling . Ascension Parish SO issued RR's to their Deputies .

Things may have changed, but that was purely empirical.