.223 at 600 yards looking for feedback on my curent build

[AgelessAnarchy]

Ok, before I dive into this let me put out this disclaimer… opinions are like something else we all have. I am open to listen to them but I am not here to start a fight so lets play nice!

So I have been doing loads of research on all of the different pros and cons when shooting long distance with the .223 caliber rifle i am fully aware that this was not its intended purpose. Some people hate this round, others love it. Yes, I am also aware there are other calibers that will fit in the AR15 profile with better ballistic coefficients (IE: 6.5 Grendel) however this is my first AR build and I wanted something that has a lot of information to back it up. I am just dipping my feet into rifle shooting and I am totally jumping into the deep end. I have been shooting pistols for years but there are so many different things you have to take into consideration that are not really an in your face factor in pistol shooting. Things like Twist rate and bullet weight are not really a factor when it comes to pistols. At least at the distances I shoot.

Only issue I have really run into is there has been almost too much information out there. So I was kind of looking for some feedback.

Here is the current build.

-Lower-
S&W Receiver
Magpull PRS Stock
Wilson Combat 2 Stage drop in Match Trigger
DPMS Panther Grip

-Upper-
Rock River 20” SS Free Floating Varmint Barrel, chambered in 5.56 with a 1/8 Twist
DPMS Flat top upper
Wilson Combat 5.56 NATO BCA
Harris Bi-pod

I know or at least have read that for competition its better to shoot .223 chambered in .223 not 5.56. but the second part I purchased after the receiver was the barrel and that was before I read about this statement so I have to make due with what I have there.

Now to the part where I am at info overload… twist rate to bullet weight

The manufacturer doesn’t state any suggested weights or even a max weight. Different sources on the net have stated anywhere from 55>62 to 55>80 for the 1/8 twist.

Obviously if its to heavy it will never stabilize and if its to light you wont maintain accuracy at the upper range capabilities of the .223 caliber specifically at 600 yards.

My top contender right now is the 69g Serria Matchkings because I can still load them to the 2.26 OAL and not have issues with proper feeding. Also plenty of people use them. But just because these are the norm does not mean something better has not come out. My question is to the more experienced rifle shooters. Is the 69g going to be to light to maintain accurate groups at 600 yards with average/normal wind conditions? There is a lot of conflicting info out there. That’s why I am asking for feedback from some of the FPR shooters in our area. The other thing I haven’t even begun to look at yet is optics because honestly I don’t even know where to start so I am totally open to suggestions here for a starting place.

Looking forward to the feed back.

 

[kz45]

Build a 308
I didn't read everything, I just wanted to be the first to post something you dont need to hear

 

[kz45]

You can shoot 80 with no problem from a 1-8
when you finish you'll have a nice rifle

 

[kengel2]

Is there a budget?

If there was, I would dump the wilson combat trigger and DPMS panther grip and put that money towards a better barrel(krieger,shilen,woa,noveske) and a RRA 2 stage trigger. Also if you are just shooting targets at 600, id go with a longer barrel, like the 24" most companies offer.

 

[AgelessAnarchy]

If a 1/8 can after all handle up to 80g that will open alot of hand loading options.

 

[Ritten]

20" is plenty for 600yds. If that's the rifle's intended purpose then go with a 1:7 twist. You can still shoot 77gr SMK's at mag length with the 1:8 but the 1:7 will stabilize the 80gr bullets better which is what most service rifle shooters are sending downrange at 600yds. I'd second kengel2's recommendation of putting your money into a better barrel. For the price (and even without it) you can't beat White Oak Armament's barrels/uppers.


Ohhh......and go .308. hehe

 

[RStewart]

If a 1/8 can after all handle up to 80g that will open alot of hand loading options.

It can handle them, but you can't load them to mag length. A 77 is the heaviest you can load to mag, although I have heard of some possible experiments with heavier Bergers being loaded to mag length. But, I do not know this for a fact, so cannot say whether it is true or not. The 77's I can vouch for.

 

[RStewart]

Build a 308

Ohhh......and go .308. hehe

Haters!!

Yeah, they were all saying that today.

 

[bearfutedninja]

thats similar to the set up i have

spikes lower
prs stock
dpms upper
wilson 24 barrel 1-8
versipod
dd lower parts kit
endyne hydro buffer
larue mount
falcon menace 5.5 x25x56 ffp optic
panther grip
badger charging handle

i didnt change my trigger yet because i want to see what i can do with the daniel defense one first.

 

[AgelessAnarchy]

I think what I'm going to do is go with the heaver load bullet 75-77g so I can stay at mag length and make due with the barrel I currently have. It's looking like I might be building a new upper sooner rather than later though. I already have 95% of the parts on this list short of the bi pod and PRS stock and trigger so I may look into other options for the trigger. Yeah should have waited on the barrel but I bought in haste and at almost $250 I can't just put it aside. Besides iv already got it all mounted on my upper. I think my next upper will be 6.5 Grendel..... So bring on kore 308 hate! Hahaha!

 

[RStewart]

I think my next upper will be 6.5 Grendel..... So bring on kore 308 hate! Hahaha!

I have two 6.5 G's. So got your back there, too!

 

[AgelessAnarchy]

Chaser I'm starting to like the way you think! Ok looking through my books I found a 77g using 22grains of rx15 as a suggested starting load. How is that sounding, Better? Again I'm going to shoot a while with the barrel I currently have I'm just looking for a good starting load to work with.

 

[Sesameball]

Sounds GTG.

The bbl is fine for 600 yd, and probably has a Wilde chamber, which is good. check
The bbl is free-floated. check
2-stage trigger (OK, but I reeeaally like my RRA 2-stage). sort of check.
You could go with a NM BCG, but that's probably nit-picking.

Everything else doesn't matter that much, and is largely a matter of personal preference. What else will matter includes:
1. Your choice of glass and (of course) irons ???
2. Ammo ???

A good discussion on twist-rate, etc. is given here: http://www.bayoushooter.com/forums/...AR-barrel-twist-question&highlight=sesameball

 

[RStewart]

Chaser I'm starting to like the way you think! Ok looking through my books I found a 77g using 22grains of rx15 as a suggested starting load. How is that sounding, Better? Again I'm going to shoot a while with the barrel I currently have I'm just looking for a good starting load to work with.

I use 24 grains of Varget, but I think R-15 is very close. One of the High Power shooters using R-15 will probably post up with their recipe soon.

 

[Akajun]

its really no mystery, if you want mag length, use the load most Highpower shooters use, 24.1gr reloader 15 behind a 77 gr berger or sierra. They shoot very well, and its one of those loads that if it aint hitting the target, it aint the load.

A few people are using 82 gr burgers loaded to mag length as well such as the Penn State Junior team, pm dzelenka, he has tried them.

 

[dzelenka]

Chaser I'm starting to like the way you think! Ok looking through my books I found a 77g using 22grains of rx15 as a suggested starting load. How is that sounding, Better? Again I'm going to shoot a while with the barrel I currently have I'm just looking for a good starting load to work with.

The standard RL15 load with a 77gr bullet is 24.1gr. If your rifle doesn't shoot it, check for rifle issues. I cannot tell you the number of rifles I have either shot that load in or seen it shot. I also took a quick look at the RRA site and it seems that all of their chambers are the .223 Wylde. You are good to go with that chambering.

I would have chosen different components, but what you have will work.

The 77gr is generally the heaviest bullet that is loaded to mag length; however, some of the highpower shooters have been loading the 82 gr Berger to mag length. This gives you a significant increaase in BC without sacrificing velocity. I am not sure that the 1:8" will stablize that bullet though. Most of us use the 1:7".

If you want to see what a .223 can do at 600 yards, come out to Palo Alto any weekend that the highpower service rifle shooters are there. If you call first, we can even bring extra equipment so you can play too.

Dan

PS It is usually better to ask before you buy. The forum members would have recommended the White Oak Armament barrel which is a better barrel for less cost.

 

[dzelenka]

I clearly take too long to type. AKajun beat me to the answer.

 

[RStewart]

Hey, don't forget those of us that shoot .223 in F-TR, too. Although my barrel is 1:6.5 twist.

Looks like you guys did well at Perry this year.

 

[AgelessAnarchy]

I want to thank everyone for all the feed back. Yes you are right it's better to ask first but oh well lessen learned. I also am not going to start nitpicking my rifle before I get the chance to put lead down range. Need to see where I stand first. This post was more a question about ammo than anything else. I will be coming out to PA this next weekend to start geting in on the fun at least watching.

I still don't any idea about optics. So in the spirit of asking first, anyone want to put in there opinion pls speak up!

 

[Akajun]

Dan, that is yet another victory to add this week