Another NOPD facepalm (NOT A LEO BASHFEST!!)

[XD-GEM]

The idea of Dave's Dad driving like a maniac is hilarious.

 

[charlie12]

My employer had a JPSO in uniform come to our office for a safety class and he stated a pistol in holster worn on the outside was a concealed weapon.

He wasn't a movie star was he?

After reading suff on here and watching Lawman on A&E I think Nolacop is the only LEO down there that knows gun laws.

 

[charlie12]

I dunno... where in the statute does it say anything about disassembly?

That wasn't law enforcement it was just a public service, making sure all the parts were there.

 

[Nolacopusmc]

very funny guys...very funny

 

[charlie12]

very funny guys...very funny

I talked good about you in post number 23

 

[Nolacopusmc]

I talked good about you in post number 23

LOL. i know. i also knew it would not go unchallenged...

 

[Sin-ster]

What is the process of an LEO actually learning the laws he is expected to enforce? Is it taught at the academy, and expected to stick? Is it the responsibility of the officer himself to read, understand and remember? Are there refresher courses, or something to alert officers to recently changed statutes?

 

[Dave328]

What is the process of an LEO actually learning the laws he is expected to enforce? Is it taught at the academy, and expected to stick? Is it the responsibility of the officer himself to read, understand and remember? Are there refresher courses, or something to alert officers to recently changed statutes?

This was kinda my point. Reading/hearing some of the gunlaw interpretation reactions of others with LE on here leads me to believe nolacop is in the minority. The Extreme minority. The general consensus seems to be that everyones (street level cops) perception has become reality. But on the flip side, in the bigger picture, laws change so much from time to time, beat cops could spend half their year in class getting up to date with all current statutes. Not just firearms laws. It just seems like a very difficult position all the way around. I'm afraid it becomes easier to just make the arrest and let the ADA worry about the letter of the law. I just don't see an easy way to fix the problem.

 

[charlie12]

I'm afraid it becomes easier to just make the arrest and let the ADA worry about the letter of the law. I just don't see an easy way to fix the problem.

I'm afraid you're right but if it gets to the ADA it's going to cost us time and money and a possible arrest record for something that was legal in the first place.

 

[Dave328]

I'm afraid you're right but if it gets to the ADA it's going to cost us time and money and a possible arrest record for something that was legal in the first place.

By "us" do you mean .civ or LE? I'm thinking it becomes a major PITA for BOTH! But in defense of LE, some situations could be debated on the side of the road for hours, especially if rank is also unclear on whatever statute is at issue.

 

[Bayoupiper]

What is the process of an LEO actually learning the laws he is expected to enforce? Is it taught at the academy, and expected to stick? Is it the responsibility of the officer himself to read, understand and remember? Are there refresher courses, or something to alert officers to recently changed statutes?

Yes you are taught about the laws you enforce in the academy.

Unfortunately it just doesn't take with some..........





.

 

[Red Jacket]

Yes you are taught about the laws you enforce in the academy.

Unfortunately it just doesn't take with some..........





.

Personal pet peeve , it takes 4 years to get a degree in basket weaving yet we'll run a man through , what 8-12 weeks ? and then grant him a badge , gun , and arrest authority . I know guys who were working the check out counter [poorly] one year and cops the next . Vetting aside , I think a 2 year course would be the minimum to give us a properly trained and professional police officer . And 2 years of Academy would give the **** ups time to show their colors . anyway , my rant of the day . Will

 

[Nolacopusmc]

Guys,
laws are obviously covered in the academy, but consider a few things. We spend most of the time on this forum discussing the intricacies of only probably 1% of the laws out there..concealed carried. An entire online community exists that supports discussion, education, re-eduction, and misconceptions about that minuscule area alone.

using that as an evaluation of scope, also consider that lawyers, who still only specialize in a a particular area of law, still do not know all there is to know about even their area of specialization.

Even doctors specialize, and those that are "general practitioners" only know the surface of most things and then refer you to a specialist.

it is very difficult because the subject is so near and dear to us and we have a personal stake, but step away and look at the issue.

In traffic law alone, there are literally over 1000 different laws, and each one of those has it's own little nuisances. it is completely unreasonable to expect anyone, especially a cop, to know all the laws.

Now you are saying to yourself, but "gun laws are so important" and they are, but they are important to you because they are something that you hold important.

there are people who have had family killed by drunk drivers and are appalled cops are not running more traffic.

there are those who are all into the drug problem and want to know why cops are not more knowledgeable about drug law and search and seizure law.

Attorney's have staff and entire libraries to research and "know" what we expect that average street cop to know at the drop of a dime.

Also consider that the AVERAGE cop probably has no more than a high school degree and is a good guy simply looking to do his job and serve his community. Someone like me who has outside interests in firearms and has a natural drive and desire to do well, is naturally going to be more familiar with those kinds of things. I know guys that can rattle off any obscure traffic statute or tell you up and down about Scheduled drugs and how to seize vehicles and money, but they are not as knowledgeable about gun laws.

Cuple that with the reality that we are completely reversed in our concept of worth in this society, when we pay teachers, LEO, firefighters, etc barely above minimum wage in many areas, yet a guy playing a game makes millions. Perhaps if we paid more for better talent, we would get better talent. there will always be people in LE who are the Michael Jordons of policing because they have in their heart and work ethic a true desire to do the job. i consider that level of devotion on par with military service. very few join the military for the money. Same with teachers. Yes, it is a job, but obviously there is more to it for many. I know for me there is.

The reality is that we learn from others in our circle of life. After the academy, little education on legal changes exists. Some officers do a good job of keeping up with it on their own through professional associations or research, but that is simply because that is the kind of people they are.

Law Enforcement is a difficult and ever changing landscape. The overwhelming majority of the men and women out there are doing a great job with the resources they have at hand. if they do not know the intricacies of a particular law, it is generally not a conspiracy against you. they may simply have never been trained or may have been given bad information.

The system is definitely broken, but it is the system we must all survive in until it is fixed. We are all, LEO and non-LEO, doing the best we can.

 

[oleheat]

My employer had a JPSO in uniform come to our office for a safety class and he stated a pistol in holster worn on the outside was a concealed weapon.

If it's covered up by something such as a sportcoat or long shirt, he'd be correct. If not, getting back to the OP....

 

[FishingBack]

Guys,
laws are obviously covered in the academy, but consider a few things. We spend most of the time on this forum discussing the intricacies of only probably 1% of the laws out there..concealed carried. An entire online community exists that supports discussion, education, re-eduction, and misconceptions about that minuscule area alone.

using that as an evaluation of scope, also consider that lawyers, who still only specialize in a a particular area of law, still do not know all there is to know about even their area of specialization.

Even doctors specialize, and those that are "general practitioners" only know the surface of most things and then refer you to a specialist.

it is very difficult because the subject is so near and dear to us and we have a personal stake, but step away and look at the issue.

In traffic law alone, there are literally over 1000 different laws, and each one of those has it's own little nuisances. it is completely unreasonable to expect anyone, especially a cop, to know all the laws.

Now you are saying to yourself, but "gun laws are so important" and they are, but they are important to you because they are something that you hold important.

there are people who have had family killed by drunk drivers and are appalled cops are not running more traffic.

there are those who are all into the drug problem and want to know why cops are not more knowledgeable about drug law and search and seizure law.

Attorney's have staff and entire libraries to research and "know" what we expect that average street cop to know at the drop of a dime.

Also consider that the AVERAGE cop probably has no more than a high school degree and is a good guy simply looking to do his job and serve his community. Someone like me who has outside interests in firearms and has a natural drive and desire to do well, is naturally going to be more familiar with those kinds of things. I know guys that can rattle off any obscure traffic statute or tell you up and down about Scheduled drugs and how to seize vehicles and money, but they are not as knowledgeable about gun laws.

Cuple that with the reality that we are completely reversed in our concept of worth in this society, when we pay teachers, LEO, firefighters, etc barely above minimum wage in many areas, yet a guy playing a game makes millions. Perhaps if we paid more for better talent, we would get better talent. there will always be people in LE who are the Michael Jordons of policing because they have in their heart and work ethic a true desire to do the job. i consider that level of devotion on par with military service. very few join the military for the money. Same with teachers. Yes, it is a job, but obviously there is more to it for many. I know for me there is.

The reality is that we learn from others in our circle of life. After the academy, little education on legal changes exists. Some officers do a good job of keeping up with it on their own through professional associations or research, but that is simply because that is the kind of people they are.

Law Enforcement is a difficult and ever changing landscape. The overwhelming majority of the men and women out there are doing a great job with the resources they have at hand. if they do not know the intricacies of a particular law, it is generally not a conspiracy against you. they may simply have never been trained or may have been given bad information.

The system is definitely broken, but it is the system we must all survive in until it is fixed. We are all, LEO and non-LEO, doing the best we can.

As somebody who deals with state laws, I can sympathize with that for sure. There's a bunch of stuff to keep track of and it takes a while to learn it.

Perhaps we could be proactive and craft a monthly firearms legal newsletter (email) or something.

 

[Nolacopusmc]

As somebody who deals with state laws, I can sympathize with that for sure. There's a bunch of stuff to keep track of and it takes a while to learn it.

Perhaps we could be proactive and craft a monthly firearms legal newsletter (email) or something.

I am actually working with several entities to develop an in-service program that will educate patrol officers about CHP, OC, and general firearms laws as they pertain to the law-abiding citizen.

Many partners involved in this to make sure it comes out right.

1. Citizens rights.
2. CHP rights
3. Open carry rights
4. Who is breaking the law
5. What constitutes a firearms violation?
6. Common myths and urban legends.

the goal is to make sure the officers know what the rights of the legally armed citizen is while equipping them with the tools to recognize and properly arrest those who are violating the law.

 

[XD-GEM]

Guys,
laws are obviously covered in the academy, but consider a few things. We spend most of the time on this forum discussing the intricacies of only probably 1% of the laws out there..concealed carried. An entire online community exists that supports discussion, education, re-eduction, and misconceptions about that minuscule area alone.

using that as an evaluation of scope, also consider that lawyers, who still only specialize in a a particular area of law, still do not know all there is to know about even their area of specialization.

Even doctors specialize, and those that are "general practitioners" only know the surface of most things and then refer you to a specialist.

it is very difficult because the subject is so near and dear to us and we have a personal stake, but step away and look at the issue.

In traffic law alone, there are literally over 1000 different laws, and each one of those has it's own little nuisances. it is completely unreasonable to expect anyone, especially a cop, to know all the laws.

Now you are saying to yourself, but "gun laws are so important" and they are, but they are important to you because they are something that you hold important.

there are people who have had family killed by drunk drivers and are appalled cops are not running more traffic.

there are those who are all into the drug problem and want to know why cops are not more knowledgeable about drug law and search and seizure law.

Attorney's have staff and entire libraries to research and "know" what we expect that average street cop to know at the drop of a dime.

Also consider that the AVERAGE cop probably has no more than a high school degree and is a good guy simply looking to do his job and serve his community. Someone like me who has outside interests in firearms and has a natural drive and desire to do well, is naturally going to be more familiar with those kinds of things. I know guys that can rattle off any obscure traffic statute or tell you up and down about Scheduled drugs and how to seize vehicles and money, but they are not as knowledgeable about gun laws.

Cuple that with the reality that we are completely reversed in our concept of worth in this society, when we pay teachers, LEO, firefighters, etc barely above minimum wage in many areas, yet a guy playing a game makes millions. Perhaps if we paid more for better talent, we would get better talent. there will always be people in LE who are the Michael Jordons of policing because they have in their heart and work ethic a true desire to do the job. i consider that level of devotion on par with military service. very few join the military for the money. Same with teachers. Yes, it is a job, but obviously there is more to it for many. I know for me there is.

The reality is that we learn from others in our circle of life. After the academy, little education on legal changes exists. Some officers do a good job of keeping up with it on their own through professional associations or research, but that is simply because that is the kind of people they are.

Law Enforcement is a difficult and ever changing landscape. The overwhelming majority of the men and women out there are doing a great job with the resources they have at hand. if they do not know the intricacies of a particular law, it is generally not a conspiracy against you. they may simply have never been trained or may have been given bad information.

The system is definitely broken, but it is the system we must all survive in until it is fixed. We are all, LEO and non-LEO, doing the best we can.

Possibly your best post ever.

(Although you realize that we're going to write on your tombstone, "Disassembly in progress."

 

[Nolacopusmc]

Possibly your best post ever.

(Although you realize that we're going to write on your tombstone, "Disassembly in progress."

Now that is some funny ****. LOL

 

[oleheat]

I am actually working with several entities to develop an in-service program that will educate patrol officers about CHP, OC, and general firearms laws as they pertain to the law-abiding citizen.

Many partners involved in this to make sure it comes out right.

1. Citizens rights.
2. CHP rights
3. Open carry rights
4. Who is breaking the law
5. What constitutes a firearms violation?
6. Common myths and urban legends.

the goal is to make sure the officers know what the rights of the legally armed citizen is while equipping them with the tools to recognize and properly arrest those who are violating the law.

Good deal....That's a damn good idea...

 

[eman2k5]

I am actually working with several entities to develop an in-service program that will educate patrol officers about CHP, OC, and general firearms laws as they pertain to the law-abiding citizen.

Many partners involved in this to make sure it comes out right.

1. Citizens rights.
2. CHP rights
3. Open carry rights
4. Who is breaking the law
5. What constitutes a firearms violation?
6. Common myths and urban legends.

the goal is to make sure the officers know what the rights of the legally armed citizen is while equipping them with the tools to recognize and properly arrest those who are violating the law.

Sign me up on it.