AR-15 question

[LACamper]

I still haven't bought a decent semiauto rifle. I've kinda narrowed it down to either a piston driven AR-15 in 6.8SPC (I just don't like .223) or a HK G3 clone.
The piston seems to add weight and parts in exchange for reliability. With gas impingement the concern is that carbon will clog the gas tube and gum up the bolt.
My question is: Why hasn't someone increased the diameter of the gas tube? It would be harder to clog, plus you could make the bolt and carrier lighter as well as use a lighter recoil spring. Less metal slamming back and forth is always a good thing, plus the AR is waay to heavy for the .223 cartridge. Yes, it completely eliminates recoil, but I could stand some in exchange for a half pound lighter gun.

 

[Zack3g]

it won't clog the gas tube. that just doesn't happen. the gas is under a LOT of pressure. You'll have to shoot a shitload of .22LR through it to clog it up.

the recoil system was designed to reduce recoil and make your follow up shots faster. you can put lighter springs and buffers and carriers and whatnot, but chances are you'll end up at the least back where you started, if not like many and adding a heavier buffer.

As to the gas tube question, yes, they have made "fat boy" gas tubes, as well as pigtails and all sorts of other contraptions. None work as well as the original design.

a piston design offers NO INCREASE in reliability. all it does is (debatably) make the rifle somewhat easier to clean.

I hardly ever clean my DI M16, and it runs just fine.

Your concern about the DI system is fueled by rumor and misconception. I'd be happy to help you understand more about how the AR works and why it's not a bad thing.

 

[Narco]

1500 rds of 22lr and no clogs.. just shoot a 2 or 3 .223 after it to blow it out.

25 bucks to shoot all day long.. 1.30 to clean...

 

[Request Dust Off]

I have 1 AR15. I read all the negative things on the internet. I was hesitant to buy one. I finally decided the best way to find out was get 1 myself. I have not "been everywhere, done everything" but I love the AR15. Everything has a downside & I think the problems are overblown. I've seen AK's with problems yet they are believed to be the most reliable.
Some people say the piston upper is a solution to a nonexistent problem. I have spoken with Marines the were in the sandbox & not 1 has said anything bad about the M16. One was high enough rank to be over as many as 1200 men depending on attachments, so he would have known of the problems. He defends the M16 with an energy that is a little scary.
Out of the few rifles I have the AR is the 'One' most people like the best. After shooting all of them they pick it as there favorite. Eugene Stoner also had other patents that were not gun related, but the AR15 is the most impressive to me. The Genius is in its simplicity.


On the .22lr upper or conversion how does it compare to the .223 in terms of recoil, accuracy. What about price of conversion & where do you get them. I'll do a search also.

Thanks,
RDO

 

[gunz4me]

I own DI AR-15s and I have one POF piston driven AR with the plans to add another piston AR as soon as all my paperwork goes through (SBR). I can tell you this, I notice NO reliability difference between the DI AR and the piston AR.

Although the bolt and carrier stay cleaner on the piston driven AR, they fail to tell you about the carbon buildup that will take place on the gas plug making it hard to remove after a few thousand rounds, and how trashy it will get under the handguards. In some ways, I wish I had just gone with a predator railed version and I will correct that with my next POF upper purchase.

If I remember correctly, the reason the AR is so heavy for the .223 is for accuracy purposes. I am sure that someone will come along to correct me on this, but the beefed up system allows for the parts that matter to stay in better alignment to get bolt action style groups out of an auto loading rifle. Also, another reason for going with the .223 is that the ammunition is lighter, therefore allowing one to carry more rounds on their person.

With all that said, my favorite battle rifle series is the FAL series. I am still kicking myself for not purchasing more of those when .308 surplus was abundant. I am also kicking myself for not purchasing a few kits when they could have been had for $99.

 

[Red Jacket]

An A1 weighs about 6 pounds and is probably the most beautiful piece of mechanical engineering ever assembled . I know you'll hear a lot of crap about the system , but I'm with the previous 3 replies . Way back I noticed that the guy's who tended to have problems with the AR also seemed to have problems with wearing their unform correctly , passing a field day inspection , keeping their car running , balancing their checkbook , well , you get the point . " A poor mechanic blames his tools"

 

[LACamper]

Thanks for the info guys...
If I go with an AR it will definately be an A1 setup. I like lightweight guns. You end up carrying more than shooting usually. I'm shying away from .223 because I'd like it to do double duty as a shortrange hunting rifle (and yes, I've heard stories of monster deer taken w/ .223).
Sometime I'd like to do a range day and spend some time trying a few different AR's (I'll bring some ammo). I've shot them a few times but never enough to get really comfortable, a mag here and there mainly.

 

[LouisianaCarry]

I love my AR so much the four things you can always expect to see me with are my pickup, my sidearm, my dog and my AR. I sleep with it and carry it everywhere. I have like $2500 into it, and have another $1000 slated for it. No regrets. Mine is 5.56, but I plan on getting a 7.62 RRA LAR-8 eventually, and then I can migrate all my mods onto it if I decide I like it better.

I went with the straight gas tube set up- I like the compatibility for the SHTF aspect. Main reason I went with the AR and Glock. Even if industrialization worldwide came to a halt tomorrow, it would take quite a while to use up all the parts already in existence for those platforms.

 

[Request Dust Off]

I'd like to thank everyone also. For an AR thread to have made it this far without it turnind into a bunch guys "measuring".

LACamper I'm sending you a PM.

Later.
RDO

 

[LACamper]

Thanks again!

 

[screamingdemon]

I myself would sway towards the AR based rifle. Mainly because ammo is extremely hard to find for a reasonable price in .308, when used for having fun. I have a G3 clone built by Century Arms, I'm not going to lie and say I don't like it...infact I love it dearly. It's very nicely put together and its as accurate as I can be myself (I still need some good optics for it though). Also my dad has a Colt AR15 which is really accurate and a blast to shoot (never had a failure with it, BTW). I myself am an AK fan over anything. I must say that out of all of my rifles the most accurate one I have is my Norinco AK84S, if that information is of any interest of you.

 

[LACamper]

I've shied away from the AK for PC reasons. Even pre-Katrina, most cops have this reaction that if you're carrying an AK you're dealing drugs, etc. I have been tempted to pick up an SKS and glass bed it, trigger job, etc to see how much accuracy you can get out of one, just for the fun of it.

 

[coonassplumber]

I have been tempted to pick up an SKS and glass bed it, trigger job, etc to see how much accuracy you can get out of one, just for the fun of it.

You can't polish a turd.

 

[screamingdemon]

I've shied away from the AK for PC reasons. Even pre-Katrina, most cops have this reaction that if you're carrying an AK you're dealing drugs, etc. I have been tempted to pick up an SKS and glass bed it, trigger job, etc to see how much accuracy you can get out of one, just for the fun of it.

I guess the PC would look a little differently at a guy with an AK as opposed to someone with an AR...but either way I'm sure they aren't going to be to happy to see you with either. I've still got to get around to picking up a Norinco SKS....haven't gotten all my other crap out of the way yet though.

 

[CavalryJim]

An A1 weighs about 6 pounds and is probably the most beautiful piece of mechanical engineering ever assembled .

....and this is coming from an AK-47 Jedi Master!

 

[Red Jacket]

....and this is coming from an AK-47 Jedi Master!

LOL ironic , isn't it AR's are assembled , and you can't tell the difference between the one "Bubba" did and the one Bushmaster did , but you damn well got to build an AK . And there can be a huge difference in how they turn out . One of the guy's bought up "PC" considerations , this is something real to consider . If you use a weapon , you and it are liable to be in front of a judge and jury .

 

[LACamper]

I was thinking of the poor schmucks walking through N.O. after Katrina. Imagine you're trying to get your family to safety (after you stupidly didn't evacuate), there's looting and shooting going on everywhere. You bring your AK for self defense. Some FBI sniper sitting on a rooftop sees the AK and assumes you're up to no good. After all, according to the media, anybody carrying an AK is either a right wing nut job or a cop killing gangbanger.
So maybe next time it won't be a hurricane. It could be a terrorist event, or an accident at Taft, or riot, or something else that you didn't get a chance to evacuate, that you're stuck on foot and want something more than a pistol.
Do you leave the AK so you don't get mistakenly shot by the authorities and end up fighting off looters with only a pistol?
I've got a Marlin camp carbine, which is inoffensive to authorities (and less likely to get selected in a gun ban). But its only 9mm and the bullet drop makes shots over 100 yards tougher. Plus it uses the same mags as my S&W 469. But its still a pistol round...
I've thought about getting a Remington 7400 in .243. Its not all that reliable from what I've heard though. Plus mag capacity is limited to 10 rounds. I'm also buying the gun to get into 3 gun matches. Which brings us back to the AR in 6.8SPC...

 

[dmiculek]

If your looking to three-gun AR's in .223 rule the roost.

Speaking of 3-gun we're going to have a 3-gun match at St James SO range in December.

 

[Narco]

how is that range, I heard the SO range is pretty nice down there now?

 

[dmiculek]

The range is set up very nicely indeed. RPPS holds their monthly USPSA/IPSC match there. We have limited public shooting days. LEO are welcome anytime.