Constitutional carry for Louisiana?

[DAVE_M]

Makes no sense to be able to be able to legally open carry until you put a jacket on and then it is considered concealed.

I have a membership at FRC. I usually don't go on Saturdays. Went yesterday to shoot my new M&P I had just bought. There were 30 or so doing the training portion of the class. Just my opinion, but if that is training it is sorely lacking. BTW the second range is now open, pistol only on the new side and everything on the older one.

I took their CHP course. They do a great job, but it’s not training. They do offer training with the CHP course if you so choose, but the state mandated course is far from training. It’s an 8 (or 9) hour course in the classroom covering various things the state thinks is important. It is followed by a 36 round qualification on a B-27 at 6, 10, and 15 feet (not yards). Passing is making at least 36 hits. Nothing incredible, yet people still fail.

I used to be against Constitutional Carry, because the CHP course was at least something, but seeing how many people don’t take carrying a firearm seriously, I’d rather Constitutional Carry be passed and now I don’t have to deal with the class any longer. However, I like having the permit for reciprocity and using it to bypass NICS during transfers. So I would hope there is still some form of an enhanced permit or something similar.

 

[MetalVendor]

However, I like having the permit for reciprocity and using it to bypass NICS during transfers. So I would hope there is still some form of an enhanced permit or something similar.

From what I understand, if this passes, people would still be able to take the course and get a CHP if they choose to. It just would no longer be required. But it would still be available.

 

[Gus McCrae]

Just some thoughts.

I don't know if Americans are really ready for Constitutional Carry. I agree with the idea in principle, but there are just so many gun owners or about to be gun owners who didn't grow up being taught gun safety or even thought about it.

If we really want to protect/expand our rights, gun safety should be part of curriculum in schools. It's a right and people should be taught how to safely practice that right.

 

[DAVE_M]

Just some thoughts.

I don't know if Americans are really ready for Constitutional Carry. I agree with the idea in principle, but there are just so many gun owners or about to be gun owners who didn't grow up being taught gun safety or even thought about it.

If we really want to protect/expand our rights, gun safety should be part of curriculum in schools. It's a right and people should be taught how to safely practice that right.

I used to agree with you. When I took my first CHP class, I was amazed at how many people were clueless. I attended a course that had a short live fire training session followed by the qualification. Most people did not even read the course equipment requirements and showed up without enough magazines, no magazine pouches, no holsters, and one lady didn't even have a belt. Granted, not all courses will have training added on, but it shows you the level of ignorance with people there to acquire a permit to carry a concealed handgun. What you may deem to be sufficient "training" on safety, others may not.

I watched people fail to hit a B-27 at 2 yards. Think about that. There is no requirement to seek training prior to the CHP qualification and there is again no requirement to seek training after the CHP has been acquired. These ignorant people are taking firearms that were purchased the day before at a gun shop, unboxed for the first time in the live fire qualification, and the individuals are then amazed that the bang is loud and they can't shoot like they thought. Part of being a responsible gun owner is being responsible. Acquiring a CHP isn't being responsible. Acquiring a CHP and seeking out training to become proficient and reduce the risk of being a liability is what responsible gun owners do. However, we're now back at the same revolving door question... how much training is adequate? I used to believe the CHP qualification should be more difficult, but that really just deters lawful gun owners from carrying, so it's a lose/lose. I'm now at the point where I'd rather let Darwin take over and let the ignorant be ignorant. Don't want to better yourself? That's fine, but don't cry when you're in jail for being negligent.

tl;dr

I used to think the CHP qual should be more difficult, but now I'd rather it not even exist.

If the CHP courses I've attended are indicative of the percentage of CHP owners that can't shoot well and have little to no training, it really proves that the course isn't helping and it's just a money grab.

 

[GearFondler]

It's a tough situation from both sides of the argument.
I also would not want to lose Reciprocity or skipping the NCIS but I also don't feel comfortable around a significant percentage of the people I've been in a CHP class with actually carrying in public, let alone allowing everyone to do it... But I'm already uncomfortable with a lot of people who are allowed to drive and to vote so what's one more added to the list?
As far as the CCW class being "training"... It is an educational course in that it provides information to the participants but I'd argue that if you didn't already know 90-95% of that information you shouldn't have been in that class. And the shooting portion is a joke.
Remember how the DMV used to issue a new Drivers License? You didn't show up for the license until you already knew the laws and how to drive.

 

[Fugum]

I used to agree with you. When I took my first CHP class, I was amazed at how many people were clueless. I attended a course that had a short live fire training session followed by the qualification. Most people did not even read the course equipment requirements and showed up without enough magazines, no magazine pouches, no holsters, and one lady didn't even have a belt. Granted, not all courses will have training added on, but it shows you the level of ignorance with people there to acquire a permit to carry a concealed handgun. What you may deem to be sufficient "training" on safety, others may not.

I watched people fail to hit a B-27 at 2 yards. Think about that. There is no requirement to seek training prior to the CHP qualification and there is again no requirement to seek training after the CHP has been acquired. These ignorant people are taking firearms that were purchased the day before at a gun shop, unboxed for the first time in the live fire qualification, and the individuals are then amazed that the bang is loud and they can't shoot like they thought. Part of being a responsible gun owner is being responsible. Acquiring a CHP isn't being responsible. Acquiring a CHP and seeking out training to become proficient and reduce the risk of being a liability is what responsible gun owners do. However, we're now back at the same revolving door question... how much training is adequate? I used to believe the CHP qualification should be more difficult, but that really just deters lawful gun owners from carrying, so it's a lose/lose. I'm now at the point where I'd rather let Darwin take over and let the ignorant be ignorant. Don't want to better yourself? That's fine, but don't cry when you're in jail for being negligent.

tl;dr

I used to think the CHP qual should be more difficult, but now I'd rather it not even exist.

If the CHP courses I've attended are indicative of the percentage of CHP owners that can't shoot well and have little to no training, it really proves that the course isn't helping and it's just a money grab.

I was with you until the Darwin part. The ignorant aren't going to be the only recipients/victims of the Darwin awards when you're talking about firearms. If we could only ensure that they're only weeding themselves from the gene pool...

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[Gus McCrae]

I used to agree with you. When I took my first CHP class, I was amazed at how many people were clueless. I attended a course that had a short live fire training session followed by the qualification. Most people did not even read the course equipment requirements and showed up without enough magazines, no magazine pouches, no holsters, and one lady didn't even have a belt. Granted, not all courses will have training added on, but it shows you the level of ignorance with people there to acquire a permit to carry a concealed handgun. What you may deem to be sufficient "training" on safety, others may not.

I watched people fail to hit a B-27 at 2 yards. Think about that. There is no requirement to seek training prior to the CHP qualification and there is again no requirement to seek training after the CHP has been acquired. These ignorant people are taking firearms that were purchased the day before at a gun shop, unboxed for the first time in the live fire qualification, and the individuals are then amazed that the bang is loud and they can't shoot like they thought. Part of being a responsible gun owner is being responsible. Acquiring a CHP isn't being responsible. Acquiring a CHP and seeking out training to become proficient and reduce the risk of being a liability is what responsible gun owners do. However, we're now back at the same revolving door question... how much training is adequate? I used to believe the CHP qualification should be more difficult, but that really just deters lawful gun owners from carrying, so it's a lose/lose. I'm now at the point where I'd rather let Darwin take over and let the ignorant be ignorant. Don't want to better yourself? That's fine, but don't cry when you're in jail for being negligent.

tl;dr

I used to think the CHP qual should be more difficult, but now I'd rather it not even exist.

If the CHP courses I've attended are indicative of the percentage of CHP owners that can't shoot well and have little to no training, it really proves that the course isn't helping and it's just a money grab.

Right..... why we need a gun safety class in school.... create responsible gun owners.

 

[DAVE_M]

Right..... why we need a gun safety class in school.... create responsible gun owners.

With the amount of anti-gun employees running everything in the school system, good luck.

Kids get expelled for pointing finger guns.

 

[thperez1972]

With the amount of anti-gun employees running everything in the school system, good luck.

Kids get expelled for pointing finger guns.

Or pastries.

https://reason.com/2016/06/16/judge-upholds-suspension-of-the-pop-tart/

Florida later legalized pastry guns.

https://reason.com/2014/05/09/pop-tart-guns-now-legal-in-florida-schoo/

 

[Gus McCrae]

It's a tough situation from both sides of the argument.
I also would not want to lose Reciprocity or skipping the NCIS but I also don't feel comfortable around a significant percentage of the people I've been in a CHP class with actually carrying in public, let alone allowing everyone to do it... But I'm already uncomfortable with a lot of people who are allowed to drive and to vote so what's one more added to the list?
As far as the CCW class being "training"... It is an educational course in that it provides information to the participants but I'd argue that if you didn't already know 90-95% of that information you shouldn't have been in that class. And the shooting portion is a joke.
Remember how the DMV used to issue a new Drivers License? You didn't show up for the license until you already knew the laws and how to drive.

You gotta wonder if allowing Darwin to rule, that in time, will just bring more people on the side against 2A rights.

- - - Updated - - -

With the amount of anti-gun employees running everything in the school system, good luck.

Kids get expelled for pointing finger guns.

What do you think is going to change that?

 

[DAVE_M]

You gotta wonder if allowing Darwin to rule, that in time, will just bring more people on the side against 2A rights.

You can’t force people to be responsible.

 

[MOTOR51]

I was with you until the Darwin part. The ignorant aren't going to be the only recipients/victims of the Darwin awards when you're talking about firearms. If we could only ensure that they're only weeding themselves from the gene pool...

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This. Get ready for NDs in a Walmart near you.


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[BlueFalcon]

["Some law enforcement officers hope Louisiana will not join states like Arizona, Mississippi, and Oklahoma where anyone who can legally possess a firearms may carry it without a permit or any training."]

They must recieve some of the fees

 

[GearFondler]

["Some law enforcement officers hope Louisiana will not join states like Arizona, Mississippi, and Oklahoma where anyone who can legally possess a firearms may carry it without a permit or any training."]

They must recieve some of the fees

Or they just don't want the additional risk/complications added to every encounter...

Officer: Are you carrying a firearm?

Joe Schmoe: Yes I am! It's right here! (as he reaches for his pistol to show the officer)

 

[ozarkpugs]

Some of the comments on here remind me of the media comments in every other state that eyed concealed carry and again with constitutional carry . The rest of the states didn't have a surge in gun related accidents and I'm confident La. residents are not any more ignorant in gun safety than the residents of other states. Besides I would say more people are already carrying with out a permit than most would imagine . That said I'm all for training. Back in the early 80s Caddo and Bossier sheriff's dept not only recommend women carry but helped with training . That was way before cc became legal .

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[Gus McCrae]

You can’t force people to be responsible.

Nope, but we get to live with the results if they are not.

 

[Gus McCrae]

Some of the comments on here remind me of the media comments in every other state that eyed concealed carry and again with constitutional carry . The rest of the states didn't have a surge in gun related accidents and I'm confident La. residents are not any more ignorant in gun safety than the residents of other states. Besides I would say more people are already carrying with out a permit than most would imagine . That said I'm all for training. Back in the early 80s Caddo and Bossier sheriff's dept not only recommend women carry but helped with training . That was way before cc became legal .

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Yeah, there aren't any stories of gun owners leaving a gun where a kid gets it and shoots someone.... or a negligent discharge when manipulating a firearm while on the toilet..... stuff like that doesn't happen.

 

[ozarkpugs]

Yeah, there aren't any stories of gun owners leaving a gun where a kid gets it and shoots someone.... or a negligent discharge when manipulating a firearm while on the toilet..... stuff like that doesn't happen.

There are plenty of such stories in states that don't offer cc permit. There are stories of cops doing such things also.

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[Gus McCrae]

There are plenty of such stories in states that don't offer cc permit. There are stories of cops doing such things also.

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Exactly why we should make things better. Staus quo won't help.

 

[DAVE_M]

Things can be made better by having the stereotypical gun owner take responsibility. Unfortunately, the general population of gun owners isn’t necessarily interested in carrying a firearm.

Hell, we still have members here who leave guns in their vehicles *as protection.*