COVID VAX

[NolaRick]

There are two reasons: fear and/or selfishness.

Fear... of the unknown, of the rumors, of becoming magnetic, of your dick falling off, of the government cloning your DNA into a pedophile pizza, or just of needles.

Selfishness... by thinking that the vaccine is about themselves. It's not. It's about their parents and neighbors and local business owners. Remember that "herd immunity" thing all these people were hot n frothy about when Trump said it? That's precisely what the vaccine does. Choosing not to stop the spread of the virus is putting yourself ahead of your family and the economy. This current round of mask mandates and entry requirements is entirely the fault of people being too selfish to get a jab.

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BTW, if you're one of the people that's afraid and are being hard and tough on here to overcompensate for that, just drive to a CVS or Walgreens in another town and get your jab. Don't tell anyone, pretend you didn't, nobody has to know. You can still be tough and macho. But you'll sleep better at night, because whether you're blue or red or purple nobody wants to get sick no matter how hardcore they are or who they vote for. Nobody has to know.

This is so right that I thought it was important to reiterate.

 

[NolaRick]

Also, it is completely Constitutional and not a violation of your Liberties if the Local, State, and/or Federal governments mandate the vaccine, or masks, or social distancing, or the like. This issue was settled by the SCOTUS in Jacobson v. Massachusetts, 197 U.S. 11 (1905).

There is a social contract here folks that we seem to have missed: we relinquish certain of our natural rights in order to live in a safe and reasonable society. What's so wrong with that?

 

[kingfhb]

Also, it is completely Constitutional and not a violation of your Liberties if the Local, State, and/or Federal governments mandate the vaccine, or masks, or social distancing, or the like. This issue was settled by the SCOTUS in Jacobson v. Massachusetts, 197 U.S. 11 (1905).

There is a social contract here folks that we seem to have missed: we relinquish certain of our natural rights in order to live in a safe and reasonable society. What's so wrong with that?

Not a thing is wrong with that... I don't agree completely with the Constitutional comment, however, as I've said repeatedly... If the FDA approves it, which we have not heard a peep on... then just as any other vaccine, it should be the PEOPLES CHOICE... and with that choice, they suffer the consequences.

For yet another example... parents currently have the right to NOT vaccinate their children against ANY viruses. It is their right to do so. However, they then have to deal with the possibilities of that child then contracting one of those viruses vaccinated against. Does that mean one of the consequences is having to home school that child? Maybe. But they accept that going in.

You're still not addressing the fact that if someone chooses to not get the vax... whom are they hurting other than those who also have chosen not to get it? And before you jump on it, I understand that those Vax'd can catch it, die from it, spread it... so then WHY GET THE VAX AT ALL IF THE SAME RULES APPLY???????

This is just insanity at this point. A "Social Contract"? Please. Where's the social contract on all of the processed foods that cause cancer? The chemical companies that pollute drinking water and the ground? The oil companies that are polluting the ocean? Or maybe all of those living off the government that should have a social contract to get a job and pay into our society like the rest of us do. Don't try to now say this is because of a social contract to make the world a better place. I'm glad it gives you warm and fuzzies to be vax'd... or maybe thats a side effect... but keep your social distance and take your Social Contract with you.

Oh, and your Jacobson v. Massachusetts... when Corona kills 300 MILLION worldwide... then maybe push the smallpox comparison.

 

[Jay L]

My decision to not get the vaccine is because: 1) personal observation of friends vaxxed and unvaxxed in the same households. The vaxxed member of the households had the virus anyway, and was much sicker for longer than the unvaxxed person. My conclusion is that it does not protect you at all from the virus nor does it guarantee you a milder case when you catch it. 2) it is a coronavirus. Historically there is not vaccine for the common cold and the flu vaccine boils down to personal belief as to whether it works. Personal experience with it is that is makes me ill. As a child I had to get the flu shot because my mother wanted us to have it. I was sick every winter. The last flu shot made me extremely ill for 4 months and ruined my health. Never again. 3) Not everyone will get the 19 and of the one's that do, there is an over 99% recovery rate with guaranteed immunity. 4)Many people may have had it and never knew it. They now have antibodies. Of those asymptomatic people, did the one's who chose to get the vaccine even consider testing to see of they had antibodies before getting injected? Did you also follow up later with an antibody test after taking the vaccine to see if it produced the desired effect? That should at least be a part of the protocol since this in an unapproved medicine using the public as test subjects. However, the CDC does not recommend this at all. I have to question why they would not want to know, especially since the vaccine is not preventing the disease.

As to why anyone thinks they have the right to tell others what to do, basically, you don't. We are all different. None of us have the same health issues nor do our immune systems respond in exactly the same way as everyone else's. If you want the vaccine, by all means get it. You have my blessing. If you don't want it, I respect your choice for your health. The vaxxed need not think everyone must get it for the jab to be effective for them. If you believe that, then take your vitamins so mine will work. There is nothing to support that view. You jab works. Move on. Everyone could use a dose of "MYODB". I back you 100% on your personal choice for your health. Give me the same respect. I have antibodies. I will not introduce something into my immune system. It is working as it should. God bless everyone.

 

[Jay L]

You do realize the man was fined 5 bucks and did not get vaccinated, right. That is such an invalid argument that has been floating around.

 

[snake doctor]

So all I am saying is that it should be everyone's choice to get it or not. If the city was 98% vaccinated and there were still 2% out there that didn't, do you really think they would shut down the economy for those 2%?

If we had 98% vaccination, then the virus would disappear. It could not propagate itself.

Lets do a quick comparison.... according to John's Hopkins... the fatality rate of the virus in the US is 1.7 in 36,306,724. Your chance of winning the lottery is 1 in 13,983,816... so you have a BETTER CHANCE of winning the lottery than dying from the virus.

Your numbers are way off. According to what you posted, there would only be about 17 deaths total from the virus - there are only 330 million people in the USA. We know there have been 600,000+ deaths attributed to the virus in the USA. It's hard to determine the actual mortality rate because we don't know exactly how many people have been infected. Mortality is somewhere between 1% and 0.1% (one per hundred to one per thousand.) Protocols to care for people who are infected have gotten much better as physicians have learned what treatments work best. New and better treatments keep coming.

I took the vaccine because I don't want a flu-like disease, don't want to miss work, don't want to be hospitalized and have medical bills, and don't want to spread the virus to my family and friends. Vaccination is the quickest way to be done with the virus.

 

[kingfhb]

If we had 98% vaccination, then the virus would disappear. It could not propagate itself.

Yet those vaccinated can still carry it, spread it, and apparently get sick and die from it... EVEN WITH BEING FULLY VAXd... so how would 98% do ANYTHING at this point?

Your numbers are way off. According to what you posted, there would only be about 17 deaths total from the virus - there are only 330 million people in the USA. We know there have been 600,000+ deaths attributed to the virus in the USA. It's hard to determine the actual mortality rate because we don't know exactly how many people have been infected. Mortality is somewhere between 1% and 0.1% (one per hundred to one per thousand.) Protocols to care for people who are infected have gotten much better as physicians have learned what treatments work best. New and better treatments keep coming.

I took the vaccine because I don't want a flu-like disease, don't want to miss work, don't want to be hospitalized and have medical bills, and don't want to spread the virus to my family and friends. Vaccination is the quickest way to be done with the virus.

So your "family and friends" aren't vaccinated?

and, we will NEVER be "Done with the virus"... believe me. "Vaccinations" are out every year for the Flu... and every year a new strain presents itself.

Oh, and those numbers are from John's Hopkins website... So "My" numbers aren't off at all. JH may need to reevaluate their numbers if that's the case.

Data as of today from John's Hopkins
UNITED STATES:
CONFIRMED: 37,017,854
DEATHS: 623,322
CASE-FATALITY: 1.7%
DEATHS/100K POP.: 189.90

Its mesmerizing to me how many of the members here are okay with their rights being stripped away in the name of fear. Oh wait... there are Social Contracts, sorry.

 

[kingfhb]

If you believe that, then take your vitamins so mine will work.

This is gold! lol

 

[Bigchillin83]

 

[Emperor]

May I just ask EVERYONE that participates in this discussion to always remember this as you opine;

None of these so called; "vaccines" (Pfizer, Moderna, or Johnson & Johnson), protect anyone from the virus itself, nor do any of them stop the spread of the virus. Vaccinated or not, you can still get the virus, and you can still spread the virus.

That is why this all seems so silly.

Option 1.) If you choose not to get vaccinated, you can still get and spread the virus. If not vaccinated, you can be asymptomatic, you can get slightly ill, you can become very ill, and even die.

Option 2.) If you choose to get vaccinated, you can still get and spread the virus. If vaccinated, you can be asymptomatic, you can get slightly ill, you can become very ill, and even die.

The only data supporting the vaccine is the huge numbers of people that are not having worse times with the virus and hence, less need for hospitalizations; and deaths.

But for me, the question I need to understand is; with everything presented above (unless everyone is lying), how exactly does getting vaccinated actual "end the pandemic?"

 

[snake doctor]

Yet those vaccinated can still carry it, spread it, and apparently get sick and die from it... EVEN WITH BEING FULLY VAXd... so how would 98% do ANYTHING at this point?

Easy. The vaccine slows the transmission of the virus in the population. Instead of one person infecting seven as is the case for the delta variant, it would reduce the transmission to one person infecting less than one new person and the virus dies out. Masks, physical distance, and other measures also reduce the spread. It works like removing oxygen and heat when you are putting out a fire.

So your "family and friends" aren't vaccinated? Some are, some not.

and, we will NEVER be "Done with the virus"... believe me. "Vaccinations" are out every year for the Flu... and every year a new strain presents itself.

That's debatable, we are done with SARS1 and MERS - at least for now - there are no reported infections of those two coronaviruses.

Oh, and those numbers are from John's Hopkins website... So "My" numbers aren't off at all. JH may need to reevaluate their numbers if that's the case.

Data as of today from John's Hopkins
UNITED STATES:
CONFIRMED: 37,017,854
DEATHS: 623,322
CASE-FATALITY: 1.7%
DEATHS/100K POP.: 189.90

The case fatality rate is 1.7% and it does not fit with the lottery probability you gave earlier. Your chance of dying, if infected with the virus, is (1.7%, or 1 in 59) and is greater than your chance of picking the daily number (1 in a thousand). My own back of the envelope calculation for the mortality rate, while trying to correct for infections (mostly insignificant /silent ones that were not tested) is around 0.4%

 

[davidd]

But for me, the question I need to understand is; with everything presented above (unless everyone is lying), how exactly does getting vaccinated actual "end the pandemic?"

My take based on what I have read: "Ending the pandemic" seemed to be possible before the Delta variant showed up. It looked like if you were vaccinated, you probably would not get infected, and if infected, you probably would not spread it. Based on more recent observations, that no longer seems to be a valid premise.

Therefore, best I can tell, getting the vaccine now only allows you better odds of fighting off illness and not ending up on a respirator or dead.

I don't think vaccinations now will end this. It is possible this may be like the flu for a while. That is pure speculation on my part.

This is a new challenge that changes rapidly. Even the people in charge are still somewhat guessing. No one can argue that point.


ETA: It is possible that down the line, vaccines may show some capacity to fend off Delta infection and spread. It will probably take a couple more months before enough observed data is available to make that calculation.

 

[Emperor]

My take based on what I have read: "Ending the pandemic" seemed to be possible before the Delta variant showed up. It looked like if you were vaccinated, you probably would not get infected, and if infected, you probably would not spread it. Based on more recent observations, that no longer seems to be a valid premise.

Therefore, best I can tell, getting the vaccine now only allows you better odds of fighting off illness and not ending up on a respirator or dead.

I don't think vaccinations now will end this. It is possible this may be like the flu for a while. That is pure speculation on my part.

This is a new challenge that changes rapidly. Even the people in charge are still somewhat guessing. No one can argue that point.


ETA: It is possible that down the line, vaccines may show some capacity to fend off Delta infection and spread. It will probably take a couple more months before enough observed data is available to make that calculation.

The sell job on getting vaxed has been lost in the mire of lies, misinformation, lack of information, lack of knowledge, and pure ignorance.

When I hear anyone in the medical profession say; "The only way we beat this is everyone needs to get vaccinated;" I cringe! Then I wonder why no one is challenging those statements!?! It is obviously not the case!

When I hear ANY politician say it, I just tune it out.

So, why not update the narrative? How can they expect anyone to agree with that premise (when many know it is not true)? How about; "We will most likely have to live with this virus in some form for the unforeseeable future now. Getting vaccinated will greatly increase your chances of avoiding severe illness or surviving this altogether.

Then let people make their choice based on that fact. But, for Christ's sake, STOP telling everyone getting vaccinated is the only way we will end the pandemic!

 

[davidd]

Funny thing just happened. My cousin, who is a surgeon at Ohio State University Medical Center, just stopped by my house. He was in town for other business and wanted to visit. So I asked him what he was hearing.

He stated that in his areas of practice and communication, he did not know of any vaccinated people who died from Covid, and there were few cases of serious illness, Delta included. Disclaimer - he does surgery, not epidemiology or infectious disease. But he talks to a lot of people and sees stats from his hospital in internal communications.

He said one of the biggest problems he has heard of with Delta and vaccinations is infected, asymptomatic people spreading it to the non-vaccinated.

 

[Horrible]

Yet those vaccinated can still carry it, spread it, and apparently get sick and die from it... EVEN WITH BEING FULLY VAXd... so how would 98% do ANYTHING at this point?



So your "family and friends" aren't vaccinated?

and, we will NEVER be "Done with the virus"... believe me. "Vaccinations" are out every year for the Flu... and every year a new strain presents itself.

Oh, and those numbers are from John's Hopkins website... So "My" numbers aren't off at all. JH may need to reevaluate their numbers if that's the case.

Data as of today from John's Hopkins
UNITED STATES:
CONFIRMED: 37,017,854
DEATHS: 623,322
CASE-FATALITY: 1.7%
DEATHS/100K POP.: 189.90

Its mesmerizing to me how many of the members here are okay with their rights being stripped away in the name of fear. Oh wait... there are Social Contracts, sorry.

Based on the outbreak in Israel, "the poster child for COVID-19 vaccination" according the linked article below, it seems like we won't be able to "vaccinate" our way out of this pandemic.

Recently, most of the people testing positive are vaccinated, reported The Washington Post.The trend has brought a slew of questions about the efficacy of COVID-19 vaccines and the implications of new strains for future outbreaks. While these trends initially seem like cause for vaccine skepticism, a closer look at Israel’s current outbreaks shows that vaccines are effective and working — even against the delta variant.

 

[Horrible]

The sell job on getting vaxed has been lost in the mire of lies, misinformation, lack of information, lack of knowledge, and pure ignorance.

When I hear anyone in the medical profession say; "The only way we beat this is everyone needs to get vaccinated;" I cringe! Then I wonder why no one is challenging those statements!?! It is obviously not the case!

When I hear ANY politician say it, I just tune it out.

So, why not update the narrative? How can they expect anyone to agree with that premise (when many know it is not true)? How about; "We will most likely have to live with this virus in some form for the unforeseeable future now. Getting vaccinated will greatly increase your chances of avoiding severe illness or surviving this altogether.

Then let people make their choice based on that fact. But, for Christ's sake, STOP telling everyone getting vaccinated is the only way we will end the pandemic!

Totally agree. But updating the narrative would force politicians and those forcibly pushing the jab to admit they were wrong when they made the promises of immunity and 95% effectivity rates way back when. It’s easier to memory hole those statements.

I read a good article not too long ago about how those that are more conservative have a significant distrust of the powers that be and the media based on the 4-5 years of incessant lying.

But another interesting stat is that a very high percentage of blacks in NYC have not been vaccinated. That kind of blows up the whole *it’s only Trump supporters (Biden received 87% of the black vote nationally) that are refusing the jab* narrative.

 

[snake doctor]

When I hear anyone in the medical profession say; "The only way we beat this is everyone needs to get vaccinated;" I cringe! Then I wonder why no one is challenging those statements!?! It is obviously not the case!

Americans could end it without vaccination, but we lack the will and the guts.

There are a number of countries with various forms of government that have squashed their infections. Some of them do it with military/police presence by making people stay in their homes. New Zealand has a more democratic approach with buy-in from the population. They up masking, contact tracing, and isolation whenever cases occur. NZ has had only 26 deaths from the virus to date. Much of the time there are no detectable cases of infection in the country and they go about as usual.

The US has gotten soft (in will and in the head) and is unwilling to pay the price. It's an infectious disease and it's easy to stamp it out - others have and are doing it. This virus nonsense could be shut down cold, but the country has half-assed it all the way so far.

 

[Horrible]

Americans could end it without vaccination, but we lack the will and the guts.

There are a number of countries with various forms of government that have squashed their infections. Some of them do it with military/police presence by making people stay in their homes. New Zealand has a more democratic approach with buy-in from the population. They up masking, contact tracing, and isolation whenever cases occur. NZ has had only 26 deaths from the virus to date. Much of the time there are no detectable cases of infection in the country and they go about as usual.

The US has gotten soft (in will and in the head) and is unwilling to pay the price. It's an infectious disease and it's easy to stamp it out - others have and are doing it. This virus nonsense could be shut down cold, but the country has half-assed it all the way so far.

Absolutely. If we just put everyone in the country under house arrest for the foreseeable future, nobody will get sick…from COVID

 

[snake doctor]

Absolutely. If we just put everyone in the country under house arrest for the foreseeable future, nobody will get sick…from COVID

It would only take 2-3 weeks.

 

[Horrible]

It would only take 2-3 weeks.

Haven’t we already heard this one? I thought it was 15 days? Isn’t that what we were initially told? We are now ~ 480 days into the 15 days to stop the spread.